Advice needed- Direct Unvented Cylinder with Systemboiler

[n1tul]

Hi All

Townhouse - 3 Floors, 4 Bedrooms, 2 Bathroom, 1 En Suite, 1 WC, 9 Rads

Long story short, had some cowboy builders/plumbers in and they nearly ruined the entire refurb on my house. they are gone now and im left with some parts the bought and a lot of headache!

This time i want to make sure i know what im talking about when a plumber (Gas Safe) comes onsite. Funds are non existant so i have to make do on the tightest budget! and i mean tight! as theres alot of work to be done still.

I know now i should of done more research, learnt the hard way! The old guys bought a Potterton Gold System Boiler 24 HE A. and a 300L unvented direct cylinder (brand not known as its in the loft and have not had time to check.) The bolier has been placed on the wall although its not connected to anything yet. The cylinder is also is not connected anything. Ive had some seperate plumbers in who have all said that the cylinder is way to big for the size of the house. The cost of running it and the actual weight when full would be a major concern as its in the loft. We dont want to run out of hot water/pressure when the other taps/washing machine are used in the house. Also would like to consider making it future proof when all the rooms are used if a family were living there. (currently just two people living there)

Q1 - What size cylinder would be suitable if i were to replace this one?
Q2 - What make of cylinder would you recommend on a budget that has everything needed such as the expansion vessel being included or separate?
Q2 - Is this boiler any good as the plumbers have raised concerns about it?
Q3 - Is there any long term benefits on setting up the floors heating system on different zones to save on costs, the top floor will hardly get used as its only for guests. The costs for setting up zones will hurt me now but will it be worth it in the future? (all rads will have TRVs)

Im a complete novice to this, just reading up online. So any advice will be greatly appreciated.

Many Thanks

 

[Dan Robinson]

First things first are you sure it is a DIRECT cylinder?

300 litres is big for your house, but not worth changing if it is INDIRECT. Make and model would help though. Weight may well be a factor and a decent builder should be able to do something to spread the weight so that it is OK - or even place the cylinder on something structural to bear the weight.

Boiler? Not the best, but certainly not the worst. Not worth worrying about if the budget is tight.

Zoning? If there is no heating pipe work in the house, then having two or three zones is only going to add a few hundred to the bill and may well be worth it.

Personally I am an advocate of zoning. Some think it is pointless. It is all down to lifestyle. If your family life is fairly regular in its routine then it works well.

Pressure and flow is something that needs measuring

 

[n1tul]

Thanks Dan,

Ive been told its direct as the mains pipe is going straight up to the loft next to the cylinder (nothing is connected yet just new pipes have been run) i could be wrong? im planning to go up tomorrow and check the details.

Ideally i would like to keep this cylinder as it has already been paid for. they can place is ontop of a solid wall to spread the weight. In the long term, will i see a major difference in the running costs of the 300L cylinder as apposed to a 150L which a plumber has suggested?

im keen on the zone idea, and have been told the main costs will be the zone valves and thermostat. although im not keen on having multiple thermostats, is there a way to link the zones to one thermostat?

 

[Dan Robinson]

The whole idea of zoning is that there are thermostats controlling the zone independently. Otherwise there is no point. You would have a guest area running cooler than the other two zones. The living are warm in the day, the main sleeping areas cool, then reversed in the evening.



DIRECT means heated electrically and not from the boiler.

INDIRECT means heated by an external source such as the boiler.

Your previous installers would have to be a whole new level of stooooopid to by a DIRECT cylinder for a house with gas.

So I would think whoever said it was DIRECT meant it was fed directly form the water main, and should have called it an UNVENTED cylinder instead.

Whoever that was should be fooked off as well.

 

[n1tul]

I just read somewhere about direct and indirect, so ive probably just got it wrong. If this turns out to be the right cylinder (they cant of been that stupid but who knows!) would there be a major difference in running cost if it is a Direct Unvented Cylinder.

On the zone front, i meant having one thermostat controlling each zone somehow? im not sure if thats possible as i aint got a clue how it all works. I was just saving on the need of multiple thermostats on the walls

 

[Dan Robinson]

If it is DIRECT sell it on ebay.

If it is DIRECT you might as well keep it.


For zoning you need to have a thermostat and/or timer for each zone. Otherwise you don't have a zone.

If you want a central controller you can look at something like the EvoHome from Honeywell - but you said you were on a tight budget.

Much better to get a couple of cheap programmable room thermostats and wire them to the respective zone valves. Whether you plumb the zones straight up to the boiler, or have central primary pipe work with the valves at the entry point to the zone and wired to the boiler is a decision to discuss with the installer.

I think you should be starting off by acquainting yourself with the terminology for now.

 

[n1tul]

If it is DIRECT sell it on ebay.

If it is DIRECT you might as well keep it.

Please could you clarify what you meant here?

i will check the model and update the thread

 

[Dan Robinson]

If it is DIRECT sell it on ebay.

If it is INDIRECT you might as well keep it.

Please could you clarify what you meant here?

i will check the model and update the thread

Multitasking... apologies.

 

[n1tul]

Thanks, and one last thing if you dont mind.

if i do need to get rid of this one (if its Direct) then what size and setup would you recommend. im assuming an Indirect Unvented cylinder from you last reply?

Would the fact that the boiler being on the ground floor affect the choice of Direct/Indirect? (there is no space elsewhere for the cylinder)

 

[Dan Robinson]

If you have gas - which in Islington you will, then you need an indirect cylinder.

If your last Dorris gave you a DIRECT cylinder then get shot of it and get yourself a 210 or maybe a 250 litre INDRIECT.

Having the boiler downstairs isn't an issue, but if the bathrooms are a fair way from the loft then you should also consider a secondary circulation loop.

In similar houses we have installed a combi boiler to run the kitchen and a ground floor shower, then the cylinder just does the bathrooms.

Maybe a bit late for you, but it depends on what your true budget is and what you would get for the current boiler; which I suspect is little.

 

[n1tul]

Considering the incoming mains water pipe is branching off and heading straight to the loft, would i not need a Direct cylinder?

The building inspector overseeing everything is okay with the pipe being run this way providing is going to a cylinder.

 

[Dan Robinson]

DIRECT means heated electrically and not from the boiler.

INDIRECT means heated by an external source such as the boiler.

Your previous installers would have to be a whole new level of stooooopid to by a DIRECT cylinder for a house with gas.

So I would think whoever said it was DIRECT meant it was fed directly form the water main, and should have called it an UNVENTED cylinder instead.

.

 

[n1tul]

So its a UV GOLD UNVENTED INDIRECT 300L, would you advise its best keeping this one or look for something else?

how will this affect long term running costs against something smaller?

Im just thinking of long term issues and the headache of paying all over again should anything occur?

And if the weight when full is a major issue?

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[Dan Robinson]

It is made by Stelflow IIRC. And is to be heated by the boiler.

Not a bad cylinder, and if you plan on having lots of people in the house then it may be worth keeping it.

It is going to be very big for two people - twice the size needed really. But the future cost/waste of selling it at a loss, buying a new one.

Once the thing is heated it will loose very little heat if the pipes are well lagged. So you are not paying a huge amount extra really as you are only topping up what you are using.

It should have everything it needs (expansion vessel, control valves etc).

 

[n1tul]

Well that's good to hear! Appreciate your help on this Dan!

- is the weight really a major concern if its based in the loft? i had three different plumbers mention it as being a concern. One talked about it needing a base made from RSJs to support it to meet building regs?

The cowboys left the tank in the loft, the plumber never turned up when it come to actually installing everything and the cylinder was forgotten about. as it seemed way to big i didnt look into it as i was under the impression that i will have to replace it.

- What additional parts (if available separate) will i need?

- I found these next to it though, not sure if they are useful?

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