Advice on Brick Laying skills.

[Northbeach]

Hi all,

I've done a fair bit of 'researching' (googling, let's be fair) recently in order to find out information on brick laying skills/courses. I thought I'd ask on here as, in the past, I've always been given fantastic (and expert!) help and advice. I'm looking in the near future to refurbish our next house, and more than likely build an extension. I understand there's no way I can attend a short course and 'get cracking' straight away, but if I can at least build up to a dpc, lay a patio and build a rather extravagant BBQ I'd be very happy. I'm also doing this so as to cut down costs somewhat, but as soon as it becomes clear that I'm out of my depth (hence at least an attempt to build up to a dpc) I'll draft in expert help.

I've never actually laid a brick myself, but in terms of 'DIY' I've laid a couple of wooden floors, put up coving, wallpapers, skirting boards (learning the correct cuts), put up 30 foot long wooden fencing, added junction box and installed recessed halogen lighting throughout the house, added spur sockets and tiled an entire bathroom...so I'm quite up for challenges, but I'd like that next level up which require proper training (and then development).

I also think that before I attend (and shell out a bob or two) a course I'll spend some time reading up/viewing instructional DVD's to ensure I'm a 'up on the lingo' (reading a few threads on this site as already introduced me to alien words such as Flemish wall, piers ad infinitum!

I had a look at this thread:

//www.diynot.com/forums/viewto...&start=0&sid=34e48c3d1a002cdf720c610253413d42

but it seems a couple of years old - some of the links no longer advise on brick laying, plus they're not in the Manchester area (where I live).
If anybody could possibly direct me, or advise me on a decent course of action (local, recommended) links/courses etc I'd be most grateful.

Not sure if the original poster from the above thread still writes on here, but it would be interesting to see how far he come (and I quite liked his wall!).

I'm also looking into a rudimentary electrics course too, but that's for another section of these boards!

Many thanks.

 

[noseall]

Bricklaying and getting the mortar correct does take a long time to learn.

The thing is with bricklaying is you are building a finished visible product, so you need to get it right first time.

There are all kinds of things you need to learn before even picking up the trowel like measuring courses, setting out, mixing muck, pointing, keeping bricks dry, when to do a wet or dry mix etc.

It isn't exactly brain surgery but bricklaying does take a bit of mastering.

 

[Northbeach]

Bricklaying and getting the mortar correct does take a long time to learn.

The thing is with bricklaying is you are building a finished visible product, so you need to get it right first time.

There are all kinds of things you need to learn before even picking up the trowel like measuring courses, setting out, mixing muck, pointing, keeping bricks dry, when to do a wet or dry mix etc.

It isn't exactly brain surgery but bricklaying does take a bit of mastering.

Exactly - tis why I'd rather start to get my mitts involved at this early stage with, hopefully, a course taken, a fair bit of reading, maybe one or two tutorial videos and some hands on practice. Then perhaps by early next year I can start having a crack myself (possible small project first off).
I'm a bit of a perfectionist, which helps a little (some say hinder!) but I know from experience in other fields, it's the hands on 'making mistakes yourself' that's by far the best way to learn.

Any recommended books out there (via, for example, Amazon et al)?
And again, if any local posters know of a decent course in Manchester I'd be most grateful if you can let me know.

[Actually, I tell a wee lie...I did a spot of brickwork a couple of years ago - I built up the base of an old fireplace, before I tiled the top with med slates...it was level, secure but no more than 15 bricks, all of which remain out of sight ]

Cheers.

 

[stuart45]

The problem with week long courses is that they tend to move you on a bit quick. Ideally you could take a week just to learn how to roll the mortar, lay out the bed, butter up the cross joints and lay a few bricks to the line. You need to get in a fair bit of practice on using the tools so you have the feel of the trowel. This is something that you can't really learn from books and where the instructor can help you.

 

[men8ifr]

Having just built part of a garage extension in large concrete blocks I can agree with the above - mine is a bit wonkey (not too bad though) and you learn as you go.

My advice (purely amatuer) since you sound keen and need to save the cash why not do the course, buy a load of bricks, make a very weak mortar mix, build a wall somewhere, knock it down recover the bricks (remove mortar) and repeat until you are confident you are getting the quality you need. In subsequent builds you could add a corner or whatever. Basically just a way to practice to get your skills up a bit before starting on the project proper!

I'd also add - I don't know the 'correct' way to build a wall but starting at the bottom some of our blocks were a bit out and that made it harder later on to use a spirit level accurately to get the wall vertical. But that's why I only did the garage!

Final thing as a beginner you will spend a lot of time doing the wall - maybe say 4x longer than a brikkie - just so you know

 

[Nige F]

4x longer - then you`ll only lay 250 a day

 

[simonjay]

I've just built an extension without much previous bricklaying experience. I started using the "bricky" tool but soon gave up on it.
The final result is pretty good (I'll put on photos maybe), but I did it very slowly, and would still take a course to learn some obviously lacking techniques on how to do it quickly and neat !
My main advice for a good result - which I realised beforehand.
Use smooth bricks ! Luckily the house was build of smooth bricks.
I cleaned off the bricks the next day with water and a scourer, but it I had been using rustics or textured bricks the end result would have been a lot messier.
My lacking technique involved the combination of mortar wetness and brick dryness such that the mortar dried crisply at the edges for chopping off. So I ended up with smearing around the joints which I cleaned using the aforementioned method.
Hope that helps !
Simon.

 

[simonjay]

Having just built part of a garage extension in large concrete blocks I can agree with the above - mine is a bit wonkey (not too bad though) and you learn as you go.

My advice (purely amatuer) since you sound keen and need to save the cash why not do the course, buy a load of bricks, make a very weak mortar mix, build a wall somewhere, knock it down recover the bricks (remove mortar) and repeat until you are confident you are getting the quality you need. In subsequent builds you could add a corner or whatever. Basically just a way to practice to get your skills up a bit before starting on the project proper!

I'd also add - I don't know the 'correct' way to build a wall but starting at the bottom some of our blocks were a bit out and that made it harder later on to use a spirit level accurately to get the wall vertical. But that's why I only did the garage!

Final thing as a beginner you will spend a lot of time doing the wall - maybe say 4x longer than a brikkie - just so you know

Note on spirit level usage. Brickies will build up the corners high and quickly so the mortar is all soft, and then tap up the whole corner to the spirit level. If you build more slowly its easy for the level to be knocked off.
Tip - use equal sized blocks to space the level off the wall, then you can use a single brick course as a datum point. Much like the way a brick line is spaced just off the corner so it is not actually touching the bricks.
Simon.

 

[garyo]

As a newbie layer (casual bbq's over the years, a conservatory base a couple of years back, and now in the midst of a small extension) I find I'm spending/wasting a lot of time cleaning up my mortar. I'm getting better though - by deliberately putting too much muck on, you get a good squeeze out of the joints, and taking this off with a clean trowel is always much cleaner than trying to point up gaps you might have by underfilling the beds.

I've also found that it's better to lay lots of bricks quickly, then square them off with a long level, rather than worrying about each individual brick. Economies of scale and all that!

Gary

 

[Northbeach]

I've just built an extension without much previous bricklaying experience. I started using the "bricky" tool but soon gave up on it.
The final result is pretty good (I'll put on photos maybe), but I did it very slowly, and would still take a course to learn some obviously lacking techniques on how to do it quickly and neat !
My main advice for a good result - which I realised beforehand.
Use smooth bricks ! Luckily the house was build of smooth bricks.
I cleaned off the bricks the next day with water and a scourer, but it I had been using rustics or textured bricks the end result would have been a lot messier.
My lacking technique involved the combination of mortar wetness and brick dryness such that the mortar dried crisply at the edges for chopping off. So I ended up with smearing around the joints which I cleaned using the aforementioned method.
Hope that helps !
Simon.

Erm, forgive my ignorance, but what on earth is a bricky tool??

Yes - pictures would be good and certainly an inspiration to get me cracking. Trouble is, I prefer the more 'rustic' brick. My least favourite of all are those 'glacial' red bricks - in fact this would determine which house we go for (currently on the look).
From reading up a bit I get the impression that you start with the 'pillars' on each corner (two...if you're building up an extension on to an exterior wall?) then make your way in....?

I think I'll definitely look out for a course as a starter then practice (back at home) on my own (again, if anyone knows of a reputable course in the Manchester area then I'd be grateful for the into). If possible I'd like to be fairly competent by early next year - we're 'slowly' house hunting - I'd need find somewhere (within the area we're looking at) that has scope for such extensions (planning permissions likely - neighbours with similar builds).

I drew a rough 3d sketch (using old fashioned pencil) the other evening to server as a benchmark (will definitely require experts for much of it I feel) - basic semi-detached (1950's for example) extend the back out across the width of the house (probably extending two rooms), single story - the roof would then serve as a balcony/patio with a 'walkable on' skylight showing the rooms below (serving as natural light to, say, a kitchen). French doors serving the balcony/patio.
'Phase two' would be to extend the side of the house to two storeys...

All of course fantasy at the moment, and no doubt expensive hence why I'd like to do much of the work myself (up to a point).
Perhaps I've been watching too many of those grand design shows on tv...!

I'll try and grab a couple of second hand basic bricklaying books up this weekend, if only to inject some of the terminology into my hands

Thanks all.

 

[Northbeach]

the roof would then serve as a balcony/patio with a 'walkable on' skylight showing the rooms below (serving as natural light to, say, a kitchen). French doors serving the balcony/patio.

Hmm, just realised...issues when having guests over, or a party/BBQ upon said balcony/patio...anyone guess what they might be?!

 

[ajrobb]

what on earth is a bricky tool??

http://www.brickytool.com/

 

[Northbeach]

what on earth is a bricky tool??

http://www.brickytool.com/[/QUOTE]

Cheers ajrobb. Looks quite handy but can I assume they're end up being more trouble than they're worth once you 'get cracking' properly?

 

[Deluks]

Probably a good place to start though, and you get little handy tools and a DVD to hold your hand. Probably worth 30 notes for a noob.

 

[ajrobb]

Cheers ajrobb.

I've seen the TV ads but never used one - tempted though.