Advice on CU change where switch drops are unearthed

[oharaf]

Hi Guys, I was called out today to look at a bungalow.

Firstly the couple are in their 80's!!!!

They would like the CU upgrading, currently bakelite and wood re-wireable.

The space for the CU is a maximum of 270mm!!!!! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!

Secondly, their switch drops have no earth though through some investigation the daisy chain does!!!!

Problem, there appears to be no conduit so will require chasing, 2nd problem they have just decorated.

Third problem the CU is currently down the side of the dishwasher (not readilt accessible (in my opinion) for isolation.



So

1) Anyone know of a CU with RCD that might fit this space?

2) Should I really change the CU and leave their lighting switches unearthed (I think this contravenes 17th Ed.)

3) If I was to change the CU should I make it readily accessible,
i.e.raise it up above the work surface and if so can I extend the legs
by crimping or replace the first run of each leg

I am finding it difficult to call on this one

By the way power to the garage is supplied via SWA from a seperate MCB connected via the Henley block what would be the best way to extend this.


Help, what can I do??

 

[GaryMo]

Have a read of this:

http://www.electricalsafetycouncil....and-community/electrical-industry/BPG1_08.pdf

 

[oharaf]

Cheers Gary very helpful, you know what I've got the same bloody document sat on my desk, I just don't think!!!!!!

 

[equitum]

1) Anyone know of a CU with RCD that might fit this space?

How many ways are required ?

2) Should I really change the CU and leave their lighting switches unearthed (I think this contravenes 17th Ed.)

Preferably not so run a cpc to them. If not willing to pay then use class 2 fittings and post a warning note next to CU to the effect that only class 2 fittings must be used. If there are any class 1 fittings then either replace or issue danger notice.

3) If I was to change the CU should I make it readily accessible,
i.e.raise it up above the work surface and if so can I extend the legs
by crimping or replace the first run of each leg

Yes it should be accessible. Yes you can crimp to extend the cables.

I am finding it difficult to call on this one

By the way power to the garage is supplied via SWA from a seperate MCB connected via the Henley block what would be the best way to extend this.


Help, what can I do??

I assume you mean a separate CU, not MCB. Extend what to where ? If you mean you need to extend the swa, then use an adaptable box.

Should you really be doing this work professionally if you don't know these things ?

 

[pompeygit]

Equitum last comment uncalled for. Yes he should do the work cos he is asking the right questions. Knowledge and experience is everything, this is the the reason OP and people like me ask the more experienced posters for advice. Not having a pop at you but Oharaf is tackling his project in the right way. He is genuinley concerned to do the job right, put yourself in his position when you started out, you must have been asking the right type of quetions all the time.

 

[equitum]

Fair point pompey, but these are basics. If I didn't know these things I wouldn't be confident to replacing CU's in 80 year old folks homes ! (or any homes) which I suppose is why the OP is asking. And if the guy is with a scheme then should be asking their help line or reading their guides, the regs and osg etc etc.

Edit: ignore me, I'm tired and grumpy as was up at 3.30 to drop parents at airport !

 

[pompeygit]

Fair play mate....hope you got the day off.....I'd want to go to bed after such a late night!!!!!!

 

[equitum]

No, working shortly, just waiting for merchants to open, so filling time on the forum !

 

[oharaf]

Equitum, I take your point, it is fair comment, but like Pompey says still fairly new and I really appreciate and listen to the advice from the more experienced fellas.

I know about extending the SWA, I just like some affirmation from time to time. 'Get it right first time and safely' that is my mantra.

Talking and sharing ideas is what they teach now, not keep all your experiences to yourself.

Any I have been back this morning and had a fresh look.

As they are concerned about cost they are going to find some fittings they like and I am going to check they are class II I have now also discoverd that they are happy to have the consumer unit moved to a much better place, I don't like the idea of crimping, don't know why but it just doesn't feel comfortable, something I will just have to get over.


Thanks for all your help

 

[Chri5]

Equitum

You need to readjust your overly sanctimonious attitude. Everyone was a newbie at one stage.

You've thrown a few spiked barbs at peeps on this web site, always suggesting DIYer, fool or someone who shouldn't be in the industry.

Please leave the cheap remarks out and concern yourself with giving helpful advice rather that simple negative critic.

Life really isn't about finding opportunity to berate or lambaste at any given moment.

 

[securespark]

Sorry. I have to stick up for equitum here.

If the OP is selling his services as a professional to a customer, he needs to know exactly what he's doing.

If the OP is a newbie, he should not be messing around with stuff he is unfamiliar with.

My helpful advice would be if you are indeed selling a professional service to these elderly folk, then you should get some professional qualifications first.

Life really isn't about finding opportunity to berate or lambaste at any given moment.

He isn't.

There are many things to consider:

You need a CU with at least 2 RCD's, not one.

Is the current position suitable?

Has the OP got the skills required to inspect and test?

If the supply is PME, can that be exported to the garage?

The OP cannot go around changing consumer units for customers without a minimum level of knowledge.

Suppose there was a problem & a fire started, killing the occupants of the building?

 

[oharaf]

Okay Secure spark so it is qualifications you want.................

BSc(Hons) Electrical Engineering

BSc(Hons) Mathematics

City & Guilds 2330 Level 3 (Distinction)

17th Edition

2391

Got all the sheets of paper!!!!!! But they don't mean Jack when your

facecd with a 'New' situation.

I was asking for advice from those with more experience!!!!!!


If in my last career an newly qualified teacher came to me and asked for advice I wouldn't turn round and say where are your qualifications dumb ass, I would share my experience and gained knowledge with them.

There is nothing wrong with seeking advice and thoughts not everyone knows everthing about everything straight away

[removed]

 

[pompeygit]

Exactly Oharaf, the reason we come here is to draw knowledege from more experienced Sparks. I had a similar prob to you, moving a consumer unit from basement to ground floor. Personally not too happy at crimping so many cables so I bought an empty box like this one http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/GWBX974.html screwed a din rail in it and used those clip on connectors to lengthen the cables. I was pointed in this direction by a forum and grateful for advice. I only crimp as a last resort as I once had a dodgy R1+R2 because I made a bad crimp joint(YES I do have a quality ratchet crimper). Experienced sparks take their knowledge for granted, not realising it has been accrued over many years and many mistakes. You experienced sparks do all of us a great service and we appreciate it, but please sometimes understand all we are asking is confirmation of something we understand to be right........if we are wrong we are more than happy to listen. Lets face it most new sparks would have shot ahead with the job without probably even taking the the time to discover the lack of earth in the switch drops. I think Oharafs attitude is spot on

 

[holmslaw]

..

 

[securespark]

There's no need to be offensive. It's a very sad situation if you can't put your argument forward without resorting to abuse.

Holms, IF you're having a pop at me, there's no need. I have posted a surprising amount of "advice worth giving" here. I also have 20+ years' experience in the industry, a working knowledge of regulations going back to the 15th edition and theoretical knowledge of the 14th Ed.

I am the first to admit that, whatever you do in life, you never ever stop learning.

I personally feel the same as you (A first for me to admit that... ) in that if you feel that you have learnt all there is to know about something, it is time for you to quit.

In my defence, I was supporting equitum who made a valid point, one that I agreed with strongly enough to post a comment on.

I AM NOT saying that folk should not come here for advice.

What I am saying is that if you have to come here asking fairly basic questions like the OP did, he should seriously question his ability to do professional electrical work for a paying customer.


Oharaf:

I am not, as some have suggested, slagging off everybody who isn't a pro here. After all, it is a site through which DIY'ers can seek help.

However, I was surprised by your questions, especially given your qualifications.

You say this is a "new" situation.

How much of it is new?

Are you affiliated with a trade body? Have you access to a helpline?

Lets face it most new sparks would have shot ahead with the job without probably even taking the the time to discover the lack of earth in the switch drops.

To be fair, if I know most pro's here, they would carry our a PIR first BEFORE a board change. This way, you know exactly what you have to deal with, rectify before the change-over etc..

Also, you are aware of any IR issues that would otherwise be difficult to explain having swapped the board over without.