Affordable house, not great lighting

[talksr]

Hi there,
I am hoping to soon be the owner of this new affordable house, but I can't say I am all that pleased to be the owner of the strip light in the kitchen here. Can't believe they still put these in houses when LEDs are becoming so cheap.

Does anyone have any idea on how much it would cost me to get an electrician in to either put in some LED downlights or a set of downlights and then one standard light fitting above where the table would go, next to the radiator.

I happen to have been in the house before it was built, so I know the joists above the ceiling run right to left (opposite direction that the strip light is facing), if that would help with running wires.

 

[securespark]

I happen to have been in the house before it was built

Did they build it round you?

I would just change the tube for an LED one or the fitting for another that is a bit more streamlined with LED inside.

You need a good light in the kitchen for pouring, chopping etc.

These have a 10 year warranty:

http://www.discount-electrical.co.u...-leds-ip20-90w-10800-lumens-l-1800mm-x-h-30mm

 

[dishman]

I concur with the above.

Do not put in downlights. It is a trend that looks good on a brochure but it is a common mistake. They are appropriate for certain situations but not usually for kitchens.

Too many people end up putting spotlights in a kitchen when they emit woeful amounts of light. What light they do emit is very focused so you end up with endless shadows everywhere not to mention glare (more so if you get wide angle ones).

I plumped for a T5 twin flourescent tube...but a modern looking one. It took me an age to find something that looked decent, stylish and emitted a good amout of light.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Harper-128...coding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=QQ59EJYZ6Y1JS2NAR2VZ

It is pretty well built. Looks great. When LED T5 tubes become more available you can swap out the tubes at that point. There a only a few brands available in T5 form. Philips do an eco flourscent tube that only uses 25w and should be compatible.

The ones they come with are flourescent tubes that are daylight on the colour spectrum, so around 6500k, which is very blue for most people. Around 4000k is good for a kitchen. It has an electronic ballast so starts very quickly. No flickering and noise.

It has twin 28w 115cm tubes that give out 5370 lumens.

You would need 9 7w led spotlights to get an appoximate lumen equivalent and the quality of the light will not be as good.

 

[davelx]

I have one of these which uses twin 2 x 36W 2G11 PLL 4 pin tubes, giving very even lighting:

https://www.universal-lighting.co.uk/products/modern-glass-fluorescent-flush-kitchen-ceiling-light/

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Does anyone have any idea on how much it would cost me to get an electrician in to either put in some LED downlights or a set of downlights and then one standard light fitting above where the table would go, next to the radiator.

I assume that you would want downlights and dining table light to switch separately, it is hard to tell whether a two way or even intermediate set up would be required. As your picture shows two switch plates at each door and the photo could have also been taken from a door location.

So the cost would depend on what alterations are required to the circuit, number of downlights required, number of switching points to be made up as two way/intermediate and the requirement for the circuit to be extended to allow for separate switching for above table light.

Also access from above needs to be factored in.

So would be very difficult to attempt a guess without all this information available.

 

[Diver Fred]

I agree with number 2...

According to the SO (and actually I agree with her) you'll need more wall cupboards before you need downlighters. Putting in downlighters will compromise the fitting of more cupboards. I'd put in the cupboards and then fit undercupboard lights.

 

[ericmark]

The kitchen is a work area so needs loads of light one 58W HF fluorescent fitting will give out around 5400 lumen reasonably even spread, down lighters are very poor spreading light so for area of light around 5W is about right which is around 420 lumen so 5400/420 = 13 so likely it would need 14 down lighters to even get near the light from a single 58W fluorescent lamp. That's theory in practice more like 20 lamps.

So at around £16 each down lights cost £320 and HF fluorescent fitting costs around £25, when the lamps blow 20 x £3 for downlights = £60 or for fluorescent tube £2 it does not take much looking at maths to realise fluorescent is best option, that's without looking at the fire problems when you drill 20 holes in the kitchen ceiling when kitchen is the most likely room for a fire to start. LED as a fluorescent replacement are not as bright often 28W rather than 58W so 2800 lumen instead of 5400 lumen yes as a strip light there are slightly more lumen per watt with LED around 100 lumen per watt and fluorescent 95 lumen per watt, however the LED down light drops to around 75 lumen per watt.

I would agree a couple of 22W round 2D fluorescents would look a little better than just a strip light, but the day of the down lighter is over, they are horrid makes the room look like a planetarium, that would be interesting to set them out in the pattern of the great bear! The major problem with down lights is area, even 2" is really too small, and with cooling fans they are not even 2" so you need lights at least 6" across they are made as surface LED lamps but then the problem of fitting, either ceiling down or floor up to fit, going direct of cavity between beams you can fish wires, so only way is to use a fitting which spans in the other direction, so 5 of these

would do the job, at £32 each that's £160 for fittings plus cost of bulbs, and to my mind that would look worse than the fluorescent fitting.

You could likely get away with 3 of these

at 720 lumen less than half the light you already have 12W each at 305 mm dia not the 50 mm of down lighter. Would have to go in line with void between beams to thread cables, may be you can find a larger one? The 2D fluorescent come as 16 or 28W using the 28W would give you more light, but you say you don't want fluorescent.

 

[AndyPRK]

what you could do yourself, is fit a small strip light under the cupboard next to the hob and plug it into the cooker socket

That would give you some good light, if you were working there

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

so likely it would need 14 down lighters to even get near the light from a single 58W fluorescent lamp. That's theory in practice more like 20 lamps.

In reality 4 to 6 is more than enough to light that space.

 

[SUNRAY]

Oh how opinions have changed, when downlighters and spotlights first became popular I hated them, especially in kitchens and lounge areas. My objections to them were described as 'old fuddy duddy' or 'living in the dark ages' etc.
A friend had a new kitchen installed which included 22 downlights, within 2 weeks I managed to find the original hole in the ceiling (fortunately the kitchen sparks had used choc bloc in the ceiling for the downlighter and I was able to restore it without making a big hole)to replace the original 5ft fluo fitting as wherever they worked they were in horrible shadows. I have done a number of similar jobs but most people seem to put up with them for about 5 years before getting fed up with the problems.
Nice to see others now offering advice about poor light before the event.

Also I have replaced loads of fluo tube style LED's with proper tubes where users don't like the multiple shadows or the un even light distribution.

 

[davelx]

Also I have replaced loads of fluo tube style LED's with proper tubes where users don't like the multiple shadows or the un even light distribution.

Not a problem with these, they look exactly the same as "proper" tubes:

https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_I...ghting_Fluorescent_Index/LED_Tubes/index.html

 

[ban-all-sheds]

As Eric says, there are a lot of things which are good about traditional fluorescent lighting.

The styling of the one the builders put in is not one of them.

But they don't have to look like that: http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=(contemporary+OR+modern+OR+designer+OR+"avant+garde")+fluorescent+light

 

[ericmark]

In reality 4 to 6 is more than enough to light that space.

Looking for same light at 5400 lumen from 58W fluorescent approx 6 lights would need 900 lumen each this would equate to a 12W LED a 10W is around 810 lumen not saying you can't get 12W, but with 900 lumen over a 1.5 inch diameter lamp allowing for cooling fins, they are so bright it would need some thing to defuse the light, using two of the light bars so that the light can be reflected off the white walls it would work, let into the ceiling so shining onto the floor you would get 6 shafts of light, not an even lit room. As you drop from 12W to 5W the light emitting area is over doubled, but also number of lights is also over doubled.

Of course careful arrangements could mean you can get away with less than 5400 lumen, putting under cupboard lights in because closer to the work they can be smaller so fitting a LED tube rather than fluorescent would drop the light power from 5400 to 2200 lumen with a 22W tube, and so total power much reduced, however to replace the fitting with down lights of the typical GU10 type either they would be in a straight line following the void between the joists or you need to remove floor or ceiling, the only way is to use something on top of the ceiling rather than let into it,

the power track would allow this, so in real terms the lights are not down lights but spot lights, this could look good, it is personal taste, it would depend on floor upstairs, but know my son removed ceiling to wire in his house, in his case an old house and re-plastering was really required, but to remove new ceiling does seem a little OTT just to swap lighting, specially as 2" down lights are rather poor at general lighting.

Today there are surface mounted lamps a little bigger than 2" even 4" will give nearly 4 times the area and so work far better, once you rid ones self of the 2" restriction then yes getting 12W lamps makes good sense, however the question is which way do the beams run, the cost to run cables in the void is not too bad, no floor boards lifted, but to cross the beams means a lot more work, with floor boards and no carpets laid not too bad, but with those MDF sheets it is a real pain cutting access hatches. Plus if carpet has been laid removing and refitting carpet. The job could easy cost £1000 to fit lights which are not as good as the original, OK may be lucky and there may be easy access, but really is it worth it?

 

[flameport]

Can't believe they still put these in houses when LEDs are becoming so cheap.

The cost of installation is what matters - fitting 1 light in the centre is far quicker and cheaper than 10 spread all over the room.

 

[Taylortwocities]

The cost of installation is what matters - fitting 1 light in the centre is far quicker and cheaper than 10 spread all over the room.

Which is why the house is so-called "affordable"

Its built to a budget.