Alternative to fused switched sockets above kitchen worktops

Joined
16 Mar 2012
Messages
89
Reaction score
1
Location
Lincolnshire
Country
United Kingdom
Is there an alternative to fitting switched fused sockets for appliances above the worktop?

My electrician has suggested a cable outlet on the ring main mounted a few inches below the worktop at the back of the adjacent cupboard. Then take a spur to a switched fused outlet or standard plug socket, close to the cabinet door, making it as accessible as possible.

Is this OK? He also suggested that the ring main could run horizontally between these cable outlets (a few inches below worktop height) and run up to the double sockets. It's a relatively small installation with plans for only 3 sockets and 3 fused outlets .

It's a new installation, still at the planning stage, the walls haven't been boarded yet.

Also, is it standard practice to supply under counter lights from the sockets or lighting circuit, or is either acceptable?
 
Sponsored Links
Is there an alternative to fitting switched fused sockets for appliances above the worktop?
Switched Fused Connector Units.
No such thing as a switched fused socket.

My electrician has suggested a cable outlet on the ring main mounted a few inches below the worktop at the back of the adjacent cupboard. Then take a spur to a switched fused outlet or standard plug socket, close to the cabinet door, making it as accessible as possible.
There is no point having a SFCU and a socket.
There will be a fuse in the plug.
You could have the socket in the adjacent cupboard.
I wouldn't fit them near the door, on the wall is much better even if you have to cut a hole in the back of the unit.

Is this OK? He also suggested that the ring main could run horizontally between these cable outlets (a few inches below worktop height) and run up to the double sockets.
It's normally the other way round but it would depend on the situation.

Also, is it standard practice to supply under counter lights from the sockets or lighting circuit, or is either acceptable?
It doesn't matter which.
It would be better on the lighting circuit then you could operate them with another light switch but probably a lot more work.
 
Reading your post I am guessing your electrician has suggested above worktop isolation for below worktop appliances and socket outlets, and the accessory recommended as isolation is a switched fuse connection unit.
This is used as safe, practical, logical means to isolate below worktop appliance/sockets, and providing the appliance require no greater than 13A this is fine.

Depending on the circuit rating, it is possible to purchase isolators that do not require the 13A FCU, these a switches that the accessory is rated according to the circuit, but these will still be mounted above worktop.
Links:
20A isolators
45A isolator
switched 13A FCU
He also suggested that the ring main could run horizontally between these cable outlets (a few inches below worktop height) and run up to the double sockets.
This doesn't sound correct, as cables should be run between accessories vertically and horizontally, not a few inches below them outside these zones.
Cables when buried in walls less than 50mm, should follow permitted safe zones between accessories or be mechanically protected.
Link:
//www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:installation_techniques:walls and requirement for 30mA RCD protection to this cables normally required.

is it standard practice to supply under counter lights from the sockets or lighting circuit, or is either acceptable?
With regards to under cabinet lighting, providing the circuit is rated correctly or circuit discrimination has taken place by reducing the fuse rating for extension of circuit, either lighting or socket circuit is acceptable.
 
Sorry for the confusion, but I'm not really up to speed with the jargon - I basically want to avoid having switched fuse connection units above the worktop. We've looked at a lot of very expensive bespoke kitchens and one thing that they have in common is the complete lack of visible switched fuse connection units despite having loads of integrated appliances. In one 600mm wide section I've got to squeeze in a cooker switch, a socket and two switched fuse connection units - three if the cooker extractor has to be isolated at worktop height too. So ideally I'd like to lose all of the switched fuse connection units and just fit a cooker switch with an integrated socket.

My electrician suggested running the ring main between flex outlet plates (I think that's what they're called) fitted below the worktop with the cable running horizontally within the zone of these outlets. The outlet plates would feed a spur in the adjacent cupboard to each appliance, connected to a single socket. The wall sockets would run up from this horizontal ring.

It would probably just be easier to put the switched fuse connection units above the worktop, and run the ring main horizontally between each socket/switched fuse connection unit. I'm guessing that each switched fuse connection unit would then have a vertical spur leading to a single socket or cable outlet behind the appliance - meaning that the switched fuse connection unit would have to be directly above the appliance to comply with safe zones. Could the single socket/connection plate be fitted in the back of an adjacent cupboard, so that the switched fuse connection unit could be moved to one side of the appliance?

Also wouldn't there then be two fuses if the switched fuse connection unit is connected to a single socket? Fitting an outlet plate would mean removing the moulded plug on the appliance - would that affect the warrantee?

My under counter lights are quite distance apart, is it OK to run the supply cable around the room with the horizontal ring main cable, regardless to whether they're connected to either the sockets or lighting circuit.

You've probably guessed by now that I'm doing my electrician's head in!
 
Sponsored Links
As I posted in another, similar thread, I would just wire a 20a radial for the under counter appliances and use gridwitches like RF in the quoted post below.

Somebody posted a really nice gridswitch set up on here before, I think it was RF (well it would be wouldnt it!) I'll see if I can find it


3Ggrid.jpg



IMGP3595.jpg



IMGP3597.jpg


;)
 
You don't have to have them anywhere if you don't want them.
I thought you had to be able to isolate the appliance without either having to move it or empty a cupboard to reach the plug.
Nope.

It may be convenient but the socket accessible in an adjacent cupboard is perfectly satisfactory although most places just have the socket behind the appliance.
 
Thanks for all of the advice, the electrician came out last night to talk it all through now that we've finalized the kitchen layout, and I had a much better idea of what he was talking about.

The current plan is to put the integrated fridge and freezer units on a separate 2.5mm radial connected to two SFCUs mounted at normal plug height next to the cupboard. Not sure if this is standard (a separate supply for fridge/freezer), but I could see where he was coming from (all of my circuits are connected to RCBOs, except the smoke alarms)

2.5mm ring circuit supplying 3 double sockets on an island unit

2.5mm ring circuit with three double sockets, one above counter SFCU connected to a timer unit for the dishwasher, and two labelled grid switches going to single sockets in the cupboards housing the extractor and microwave.

10mm radial for twin oven (gas hob).

Four under counter lights connected to the 1.0mm lighting circuit which currently has four spots.

Does that all seem OK? I know it sounds like I don't trust the electrician, but I've used four now since we started rebuilding an old barn and workshops, and each one has criticized and altered the previous work.
 
Why a ring FC?

Surely a radial would suffice?

Why are people fixated with rings, especially in kitchens?
 
Why a ring FC? Surely a radial would suffice? Why are people fixated with rings, especially in kitchens?
Maybe they prefer to work with 2.5mm² cable and believe/fear that a 20A design current might not be enough - a kettle and toaster alone could use up most of that.

Kind Regards, John
 
Why a ring FC?

Surely a radial would suffice?

In fairness the electrician did suggest radial circuits, especially for the island unit, but I got a good deal on a number of reels of 2.5mm cable a few years ago and couldn't see the point in forking out for 4mm!
 
How about a few radial circuits wired in 2.5mm on a 20 amp MCB ? Its the method i use now on rewires last one i did the bedroom sockets on a radial, the living room and conservatory on a radial and only wiring a ring in the kitchen due to it having a high current demand and not wanting to buy a reel of 4mm twin to use a 32 amp radial circuit.
 
Why a ring FC? Surely a radial would suffice? Why are people fixated with rings, especially in kitchens?
Maybe they prefer to work with 2.5mm² cable and believe/fear that a 20A design current might not be enough - a kettle and toaster alone could use up most of that.
Or maybe they don't actually have the ability to think about things.
 
The ring brings the CPC to sockets via two routes hence a single fault ( loose CPC terminal ) will at worse leave only one socket without an effective CPC
 

DIYnot Local

Staff member

If you need to find a tradesperson to get your job done, please try our local search below, or if you are doing it yourself you can find suppliers local to you.

Select the supplier or trade you require, enter your location to begin your search.


Are you a trade or supplier? You can create your listing free at DIYnot Local

 
Sponsored Links
Back
Top