Amptec Central Heating Boiler

[alnmcn]

Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 3:47 pm Post subject: Amptec Central Heating Boiler

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Hi,

Just joined the forum.


I am looking for advice in installing an Amptec Electric central heating boiler.

I have bought a flat which I am renovating and has no heating. Gas is not available so I have decided to go for one of these boilers. Looking at their website, it looks like I need:

The boiler
An Automatic Air Vent
An Automatic Pressure Relief Valve
Drain Valve
Service Valve
Water Pump
Room Thermostat
Programmer
Hot water tank
Radiators and piping


I am planning to install 6 radiators and a heated towel radiator in the bathroom. All the radiators are K2. The sizes are as follows:

1 x 600x600
2 x 600x800
2 x 600x900
1 x 600x1200

Could anyone please help me with the following:

1. Where would I be able to find an automatic pressure relief valve?

2. What would be the best water pump to get?

3. The Instructions say that the boiler can be installed as either an open vented system or a pressurised system. What are the advantages/disadvantages of each?



www.electroheatplc.co.uk

4. Would I need a specific type of hot water cylinder?

Thanks in advance,

Alan.

 

[Agile]

The cylinder can be totally separate and heated from a standard immersion heater so you can choose whatever suites you best.

Depending on the heat output of the radiators you will probably need a 9 kW or 11 kW boiler. That will take a considerable current and presumably will be on an Economy 7 ­­® tariff.

Unless you have some very special needs then I dont see the advantage over the normal electric convector heaters or even the off peak storage heaters which are more economical to fit.

Before rushing off to buy something unsuitable check the rating of your electricity supply!

Tony Glazier

 

[chrishutt]

Do you realise what it's going to cost to run an electric boiler? Best to think it through carefully before you go ahead with the installation.

 

[ingram]

My in-laws had an Amptec boiler installed to replace their coal fired boiler. I think it was the 11kw ( largest available ) although they can be doubled up if greater output is required.

It is connected so that it runs both central heating and hot water. The timer can be set for either, or both.

It works well and is reasonably *economical: comparable with the coal boiler, without the hassle.

It was necessary to have a cut out ( laymans technical term! ) which came into affect if the electric shower was used so as not to overload the electrical circuit.

* Their electric system was changed over to 'Economy 10' ( not Econ. 7 ) at the time of installation. This gives off peak rates at night ( about midnight to 5am I think) as well as periods during the day: I think that it is 1pm to 4pm and again at 8pm to 10pm. You get *all* your electricity switched to economy rates, not just the heating.

hope that is of interest.

Ing.

 

[alnmcn]

I considered storage heaters but from past experience I found them impractical. Maybe modern versions are better but I always seemed to find they discharged the heat too soon, even with the output at a minimum leaving very little to heat the rooms towards the evening.

It was the economy 10 tariff I had in mind but I dont know anyone who has the system so am unsure of the running costs. The website claims the boiler is cheaper to run than storage heaters but in the real world I cant be sure.

 

[chrishutt]

The website claims the boiler is cheaper to run than storage heaters but in the real world I cant be sure.

That's hard to believe! Storage heaters could be used with economy 10 which would give them a good boost from 1 to 4 pm to carry them through to the 8 to 10 pm charge. You might also consider a thermal store as an alternative, especially if you have the space for one.

 

[alnmcn]

Maybe I should have considered this before buying the radiators. unfortunatley I bought them last year as they were on offer and dont think I have the receipt any longer.

Chris if you definitely think this is the way to go i'll start pricing it up.

Just had a look at the scottish power economy 10 tariff. The Off peak rate is 3.86p per unit.

I'm thinking if I needed the 11KW boiler it would cost 11x3.86 = 42.46

So approximatley 43p per hour running on full power. Any idea how this compares?

Does seem like it is quite expensive.

Thanks,

Alan.

 

[chrishutt]

The off-peak rate isn't really the problem. It's what happens between 4 pm and 8 pm, or in the morning. You'll be running on full price electricity, which gets scary.

The trick is to limit your heating to the off-peak periods and to do that you need some form of storage to carry you through the on-peak periods. A thermal store could be used with your radiators. There's a guy on the Screwfix forum who'll tell you all you want to know and more about thermal stores, but you need a big cupboard, cellar or something to put the thing.

 

[HarrogateGas]

Lets remember Mr Blair has flown off to Russia recently to try to ensure we have enough Gas to see us through this coming winter........with gas prices doing what they are doing i think the amptec is a good option.....in a couple of years youll be laughing as it will be costing you less to run than some new condensing boilers being installed today.

They are reliable, no service costs,small and efficient in what they do......i say go for it but be sure to report back!

 

[overlandrover]

Hello all

I have recently replaced a loathsome solid fuel boiler with a FIFAS electric boiler (no gas in the area, oil and LPG not an option, and I hate storage heaters - so please, no remarks about what I should have done!).

The boiler was professionally installed by a reputable fitter, and after some wrangling, we finally got Powergen to put us onto the Economy 10 tariff so we could make use of the 1pm-4pm cheaper rate.

However, the new meter never registers any readings on Rate 3. Rate 1 and Rate2 are clocking-up the numbers, but despite repeated contact with Powergen, and a subsequent visit by a Siemens meter guy, we still don't register anything on Rate 3.

So are we actually on Economy 10, or still on Economy 7? When we put the boiler on in the afternoon, is that at peak-rate? Thankfully we're having a mild winter so far!

According to the man from Siemens, "there's nothing connected for the Economy 10, hence why there is nothing reading on Rate 3". Obviously there's no storage heaters, but does the boiler need to be specially connected to the meter?

Before I go back to Powergen again, is there something that I'm missing?
- Do Powergen simply need to re-programme the meter?
- Should there be another cable running from the meter to the CCU, and onto the boiler?
- Has the boiler been installed incorrectly?

I look forward to your responses.

 

[ingram]

Hello all

However, the new meter never registers any readings on Rate 3. Rate 1 and Rate2 are clocking-up the numbers, but despite repeated contact with Powergen, and a subsequent visit by a Siemens meter guy, we still don't register anything on Rate 3.
<snip>
I look forward to your responses.

I am sure there will be some experts to help when they get back from the pub but meanwhile, my inlaw's meter (Amptec boiler and meter installed by South East Electricity) on economy 10 has only two Rates.

HTH

Harvey

 

[overlandrover]

ingram wrote:

...Their electric system was changed over to 'Economy 10' ( not Econ. 7 ) at the time of installation. This gives off peak rates at night ( about midnight to 5am I think) as well as periods during the day: I think that it is 1pm to 4pm and again at 8pm to 10pm. You get *all* your electricity switched to economy rates, not just the heating.

...and then wrote:

...my inlaw's meter (Amptec boiler and meter installed by South East Electricity) on economy 10 has only two Rates.

According to Powergen, the rates should be as follows:
00:00-02:00: Rate 2 ("Day" only)
02:00-07:30: Rates 1 & 3 ("Night" and "Stored Heat" simultaneously)
07:30-13:30: Rate 2 ("Day" only)
13:30-16:00: Rates 2 & 3 ("Day" and "Stored Heat" simultaneously)
16:00-22:00: Rate 2 ("Day" only)
22:00-00:00: Rate 2 & 3 ("Day" and "Stored Heat" simultaneously)

As you can see, the only off-peak rate for all electricity is for 5½ hours overnight. My meter does not register any load on Rate 3, and as a consequence any boiler usage between 07:30 and 02:00 is at peak rate!

Does anybody know how an Economy 10 meter is meant to be wired up or programmed? How does it split the two simultaneous loads? Should there be another live tail coming out of the bottom of the meter feeding the boiler?

Ingram: Does your inlaws' [Southern Electric?] bill have three rates, with the third rate registering zero? Can you advise the price per unit for the two rates? I might have to change supplier if their off peak rate is as you say.

Many thanks

 

[ingram]

Overlander wrote:-"Ingram: Does your inlaws' [Southern Electric?] bill have three rates, with the third rate registering zero? Can you advise the price per unit for the two rates? I might have to change supplier if their off peak rate is as you say."

I'll look into it in the next day or so and get back to you.

Harvey[/quote]

*EDIT* Quicker than I thought; I have found this site ( Southern Electric site doesn't mention eco.10, not that I could find)

http://www.kensaengineering.com/pdf/206.pdf

I have checked with the inlaws: definitely only two rates. ( haven't physically checked their meter, but I recall it only showed two rates when I've looked at it previously, although when cycling through the meter displays I do recall some 'blanks'. I can check that if you *really* need me to: if the info. below doesn't answer your questions.)

Times and current ( recently increased) prices.

Off peak is Midnight to 5am
1pm to 4pm
8pm to 10pm

Rates:-
off peak:- 4.7pence per unit ( 4.94 inc vat)

on peak:- 10.2 ppu (10.71 inc vat)

Standing charge:- 17.28 pence per day (18.14 inc vat)

ALL electricity usage during a 'rate period' is charged at that rate.

It seems that the company may have different rates/ times depending on the locality of the supply.

I hope that helps.

btw, reverting back to previous comments in this thread; In my experience .night storage' heating is crap. I want the heat on when it is cold enough. I don't want to have to guess what the next day's weather is going to be.
If I am out all day I don't want to keep the house toasty and warm while I'm not in it. But I want to switch the heating on for a fairly rapid warm up as soon as I come home. This is from experience as a user.

I agree with the comments about needing some 'heat storage' while in the peak charge time on economy 10. It would be good to be able store some heat while it's on in offpeak on the Amptec and similar wet heating systems ........ each to his own.

Harvey

 

[overlandrover]

Thanks very much for your response, Ingram

This is intriguing - a tariff that offers low rate on ALL electricity for a few hours during the day.

This is what we were 'sold' when we signed-up to the boiler and Economy 10 tariff, only to realise the low daytime rate is for heating only, and only works if it's connected properly (which I'm still convinced it isn't).

A Powergen meter technician will be returning again on the 22nd, and if we still get no joy, we'll be changing suppliers, and claiming compensation for the energy we misguidingly used during the day.

...storage heating is rubbish. I want the heat on when it is cold enough. I don't want to have to guess what the next day's weather is going to be.
If I am out all day I don't want to keep the house toasty and warm while I'm not in it. But I want to switch the heating on for a fairly rapid warm up as soon as I come home. This is from experience as a user.

I agree with you there, however we also signed-up to the new boiler before my wife took on a new job working from home. It gets noticeably cold during the day, so if nothing else we may have to augment the cool periods with a lower wattage heater until we can use the cheap rate!

 

[ingram]

I found this forum where they are discussing Powergen Eco.10

http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=135700&page=1

Have a look at post #17 by Chris89.

It looks to me as though economy 10 with three charge rates is for when Storage Heaters are used. Not sure on that though:

Best of luck with it ..... oh! and keep warm

Harvey