An interesting read

[andrew1210]

Hello, unfortunately no outcome as such. The problem has been put down to a cat. D emergency whatever that is. SP are only attending now if spare manpower is available. They have came two days last week Wed & Fri, sat in vans for 3hrs! and went away again, stating the they are waiting on a man coming out with the schematics. As such no one has came yet.

Two weeks down the line and NO action at all has been taken. IE they've sat for 5days spread over two weeks, looking at the 2.8A reading, but not doing anything about it, obviously it is not going to change if they do not do anything!

I have never known a company that wastes so much time and manpower.
Phoning tomorrow to chase up once more.

Will deffinately post the outcome on this thread though if we ever get one

 

[radioredcat]

I have never known a company that wastes so much time and manpower.

They have probably twigged that it going to cost money so it ends up on the backburner in a queue.

Hope it gets sorted sooner rather than later.

Andy

 

[andrew1210]

So, do I, phoned today, but got an ungrateful, sarcastic little tw@ who was obviously having a bad day. The answer was "there is XY millions other customers on our network and we can't be everywhere at the same time"



wouldn't be that if I said "I got a shock from my CU"

On that note..... If this two amps is entering on Earth, where is it going! why is our CU casing etc not live? Is it stopping at the service head?

Thanks

 

[matt1e]

OK so it gets worse
back from school a team of 8 SP men have been out all day and checked all 39 houses in the street... ALL HOUSES have current on Earth with highest being on our block near the top and transformer (3.5A today) and lowest at the bottom of the street 0.55A

to be expected as they have a damaged/broken/high impedence neutral somewhere

SP have lost the schematics for our street and have spent the day with machines marking all underground cables out.

I thought this was overhead lines?

They say that every house they checked (all that were occupied at the time) in our street, and other street, are all wired as PME, but system is TT for some reason!

fills you full of confidence doesn't it, they're not sure. its either TT or PME. I'll bet if they are not sure then for some reason it's actually a TN-C supply at the moment and not TN-C-S(PME)

When they said 3A (sure it wasn't 3V?) the current must be flowing from the earth wire to somewhere else. Where? and how can it if the fuse is pulled?

Our house is now the "testing station" where SP are running back and forward after pulling house service fuses to see readings. It appears as a service fuse is pulled, the current is shared amongst those that are still on!

I'm now 99% confused!

I'm not, losing a neutral anywhere whether it is to a single dwelling or common to a few dwellings will cause inbalenced currents to flow through all the earths that are commonly connected via utility pipes etc back to the star point,this is why there is still current flowing when you pull yours and your next door nieghbors fuses, its not current flowing into your property,it's flowing VIA from other dwellings regardless of the phase they are on
westie101 and bernardgreen are spot on IMO to the symptoms though I dont think its a problem with the neutral between the transfomer and the houses I think its more of a neutral problem between the houses
its a bit hard to explain if I have time I'll do a sketch (if I can log on' still having probs with DIYNOT) but one thing is for certain. it's defo a neutral problem somewhere

they hit a spike into our grass and ran a lead to our Earth, and the phantom current disappears, they think it is on their neutral

Thats because they reastablished the neutral to the starpoint link via true earth (I suspect that although the utility pipe may have a good common connection between the houses. it's probably a higher impedance to true earth)
did the "phantom" current disappear on all the houses when they did this?

Matt

 

[bernardgreen]

Read this thread where an electrician with common sense got the DNO to react rapidly to repair the fault in the network

http://www.diynot.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=258371

 

[andrew1210]

Very Interesting read. Not sure what happened in other houses when the Earth rod was in place.

I went around a few neighbours today and 3/7 told me there RCD trips for no apparent reasons when light load (and if like us, unearthed/double. ins. appliances) are plugged in. Very strange. Phoning DNO is useless, they keep saying they'll 'get to it'. An official complaint has been logged and is now being investigated, so heres hoping it'll get taken seriously.

Might say i'm getting shocks from the kitchen sink

 

[RF Lighting]

I'd also like to put money on it being a failed or high resistance neutral between some of the houses, and also either a deliberate or accidental connection between N&E in one of the affected houses.

 

[andrew1210]

Hi, I don't like resurrecting an old thread, but I thought everyone might like a wee update!

Scottish Power hid in the corner regarding this issue, but after constant phone calls, they have came out this week.

They have determined the fault lies in someones house in our scheme of apporx 100 houses, and they are now going to proceed and disconnect everyone from the grid at some time in the coming weeks and narrow it down......

They even admit themselves it's like looking for a needle in a haystack!

To be continued . . .

 

[radioredcat]

Well i am sure everybody likes the end result to a problem as i do so thanks for the update.

Andy

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I'm looking forward to at least one more update - finding out what the problem was.

 

[matt1e]

I'd forgot about this one!
Have Scottish Power still not sorted it?

They hit a spike into our grass and ran a lead to our Earth, and the phantom current disappears, they think it is on their neutral

Since you have that current flow through your main earth I pursume the main bonding is connected to the consumer unit as apposed to the MET in which case

where did they connect the temp stake to that made this phantom current disappear? the MET or your earthing bar in the consumer unit?
logic should tell them if the neutral fault is upsteam or down steam of your property

its a bit hard to explain if I have time I'll do a sketch (if I can log on' still having probs with DIYNOT) but one thing is for certain. it's defo a neutral problem somewhere

sketching now

 

[andrew1210]

Hello, only me (again!)

A top gaffer at Scottish Power phoned us on Friday after hearing we were a bit p'd off (understatement)

Specialist contractor (I'll be the judge of that!) coming out tomorrow 9am to start working on the transformer, 25 meters from house. so we're all being switched off for a while tomorrow. They have determined the fault IS on their network which is what we've been trying to prove for over 6 months now!

They are also installing a (voltage monitoring device??) as the last engineer said we're getting a 'dirty' supply??

Anyways, expect an update tomorrow night if we have power!

I could write a book from this thread!

 

[matt1e]

Right this is what we're dealing with
View media item 35542
forgive all the arrows but this is how it is, some arrows may need to be pointing the opposite way depending on impedences
I have included the temp stake to coincide with the following sketch

The biggest problem is the inability to tell which way the current flow is,

Quite but should be easy in this case given

They hit a spike into our grass and ran a lead to our Earth, and the phantom current disappears,

in the diagram below if when the stake is connected at the met the current disappears of the main earth, then the current is flowing from the neutral conductor to earth (the stake short circuits the path to earth via the bonding)
If on the other hand the current disappears when the stake is connected to the CU then the current is flowing from earth via the bonding to the neutral (the stake short circuits the path to neutral )
View media item 35541

 

[matt1e]

Hello, only me (again!)

A top gaffer at Scottish Power phoned us on Friday after hearing we were a bit p'd off (understatement)

Specialist contractor (I'll be the judge of that!) coming out tomorrow 9am to start working on the transformer, 25 meters from house. so we're all being switched off for a while tomorrow. They have determined the fault IS on their network which is what we've been trying to prove for over 6 months now!

They are also installing a (voltage monitoring device??) as the last engineer said we're getting a 'dirty' supply??

Anyways, expect an update tomorrow night if we have power!

I could write a book from this thread!

Hi Andrew
If they are turning off power I would think It should not take long to test the neutral integrity along the poles (westie101 will know better)
let us know what the outcome is
make sure your lappy is charged (just in case)

 

[andrew1210]

Hi, they are great drawings! that was quick! The current disappeared when the connected it at A, the MET. also, this current 'increases' as cut-outs are pulled in other effected properties.

We have the highest current reading of the effected houses, and are nearest to the transformer, everything seems too 'linked' here for my liking!

I'm considering asking SP if I could get a few people from here out to fix it and forward the bill since everyone here seems to know a helluva lot more than half of the 'engineers' that have been out!

I'm just concerned if they turn the power off that they'll run an emergency supply to our kettle so they can survive the day!!!!!