Anyone Here got experience with C-Bus?

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Moving house again, madness I know. But buying a DIY project house and keen to install some home automation. I am an Electronic / Software engineer and have been reading up, and it looks to do exactly what I need. Just wondered if anyone has real work experiences with this. Looking at lighting control throughout the whole house. ClipSal seem to make the kit.

Cheers,
Will
 
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I am in the process of semi-automating the lighting ( internal and external ) in the renovation of a 492 year old grade two listed cottage.

Main problem is getting mains voltage cabling to switches on wattle and daub walls. So ELV circuits switching contactors was a prime factor in the design to allow small diameter cables to be used ( alarm cable ) down walls.

After looking as several systems both on paper and installed in houses of friends and aquaintances I came to the conclusion that for me an " off the shelf " system would not be ideal. So I am designing my own from scratch.

Main "complaint" from users ( or rather their guests staying over night ) was the system was too complex for them to understand.

Wiring each lamp to a central multi lamp controller seems to be a good way rather than having "intelligent" modules close to each ceiling rose.

RF ( wireless ) signalling is not always as simple and straight forward as the manufacturers claim it is.

Mains borne signalling may not work where a controller is on one ciruit and its controlled items are on a different circuit and the circuits are protected by individual RCBOs. RCBOs seem to attenuate the signals passing through them
 
Very interesting, you are a brave man crating your own, but is food for thought.

I plan wire all lights with 240 back to a central location, and use low voltage Prob Cat5e to switches and control panels. I like the idea of "smart" switches.

Being a massive gadget fan and often called a geek, I love touchscreen control, etc, keen to have a system thar is flexible, but not rely on one central PC to make everything work.

Lots of options out there, but tricky to find one that meets my needs, also agree modules and x10 etc don't appeal to me
 
As time goes on you will get older. At some point you will be unable to service the system your installing and you will need to get some one else to do the work.

Using something like x10 you have a slim chance of finding some one to work on it. Using a special well the chances are nearly zero unless you have a son in the same trade.

I have considered using PLC's to control my house but although I have the PLC and I have worked with ASii should it fail the only guy I know who could repair it would be me or my son. As a result I have not gone down that route.

The same applied to commercial work. Using Visual Basic I could build a PLC interface but if it failed unlikely anyone but me could repair it. Use SCARDA and there is no problem.
 
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In our neck of the woods C-Bus is short for Can Bus control, in this case what does it stand for?
Any help appreciated
 
I can't help you with CBus but some more food for thought for you, having just 90% completed a rewire and built in intelligent control of the lights.

After much deliberation, and like ericmark I was also worried about future maintainability, I came up with the following system for lighting control.

2 standard steel enclosures housing a DIN rail each have been used. 1 for the downstairs lights mounted under the stairs tight up to the ceiling, and 1 for the upstairs lights mounted on the loft floor. In both enclosures a single rail on the long side of the box terminates a 2 core & E from every lamp and 3 core & E from every light switch, plus the radial from the CU and also an extra 4mm earth ( i like redundancy in a system and as I intend to use C6s for the lights it will drop the loop impedance even further).
All the connections are standard DIN rail terminals. The earths as usual go straight to the rail, the neutrals are bussed together across the top of the terminals, leaving only the switched lives to deal with on the other side of the terminals. In this way 2/3 of the interconnections are done with no further wiring.

The mains wiring and low voltage control wires do not share ducts. And the box downstairs has intumescent to shut the wiring duct in case of a fire.

The system has the following important (well to me anyway) features.

1) As the DIN rail is tight to one side this leaves most of the enclosure free for control gear. Also isolation and clearances are easier to achieve - all the mains stuff is one side leaving bought-in kit or custom PCB to do the rest.
2) There is no intelligence or other componentry to go wrong in inaccessible places. There are no joints in the system other than the ones in the enclosures and at the fittings. Inspection, test and trouble shooting is a doodle.
3) The system can easily be setup to work in exactly the same way as a traditional system by installing some temporary links into the DIN terminals, leaving you free to decide what control gear you want to use and when.
4) Every switch has a 3 core & earth to it just like you would with a 2 way switch. Some lights in the building need this, but with relay control if/when the control system fails it can easily be put back to traditional operation by removing the control system power. Also the system looks and behaves like a completely standard install should you so choose.
5) Each box has a couple of generic control wires to it allowing pretty much any control gear to be fitted. One is CAT5 the other is 2 shielded twisted pairs to look after anything that is RS485 like, so MODBUS/ProfiBus etc etc. This will give enough suitable wiring for balanced data comms and power/isolated power.
6) light fittings are easy to install as there's no overcrowding of terminals. Plus the system can be partially installed and run, adding to it as and when.
7) the core connectors of the system are industry standard and won't disappear, the control gear could be easily changed or scrapped completely.
8 ) The DIN rail terminals also obviate the so called 'choc bloc' connectors and/or joint boxes replacing them with cage clamp terminals which I've always prefered.
9) The CU end is normal, with 2 radials going out.
10) adding additional light fittings or functionality is very easy. So it would be reasonably future proof. Dare I say that!

Okay the control gear is different from what you'd usually find domestically but the rest isn't far away from regular stuff and could be maintained by a competent electrician. But stick a SCADA system in there and you're into industrial control and with its associated higher cost.

There's some lovely touchscreen HMI stuff about now but it's not cheap.
 
In our neck of the woods C-Bus is short for Can Bus control, in this case what does it stand for?
Any help appreciated

C-bus is not CAN bus (which belongs in a car, and should stay there). It's a fairly new Australian invention which might or might not gain acceptance in the home automation scene over here.
I'm a certified Profibus (which belongs in a factory) engineer, and have also worked with all sorts of other RS485 based comms including modbus (which doesn't belong anywhere). When it came to wiring my own house, although I thought about automating it I went the old way. I couldn't find any downside to being able to turn on a switch and have the light come on.
 
Main "complaint" from users ( or rather their guests staying over night ) was the system was too complex for them to understand.
Which has absolutely nothing to do with using ELV switches and cables, and everything to do with believing there is a downside to being able to turn on a switch and have the light come on.

If you want one of your hobbies to be automating your house, fine - I know of someone who has instrumented his mousetraps, so that when one goes off he gets a tweet. I kid you not.

But don't overlook the beauty of KISS.
 
Which has absolutely nothing to do with using ELV switches and cables, and everything to do with believing there is a downside to being able to turn on a switch and have the light come on.
? ?

There is no belief that there is a down side to to being able to turn on a switch and have the light come on. Where did that idea come from ?

The complexity that some home automation systems allow is the downside. The bedroom lamp that starts to fade to dim and then go out all by itself confuses people who didn't realise the light was prgrammed to do that.

If you want one of your hobbies to be automating your house, fine
5% hobby, 45% labour saving 50% making life easier in the long term.

But don't overlook the beauty of KISS.
Which is always in mind.

As time goes on you will get older. At some point you will be unable to service the system your installing and you will need to get some one else to do the work.
The system in the previous house worked for 15 years without any problems and the new controllers are being built to the same standard of reliability. Hopefully after a few years of experience there will be no need to alter any of the parameters such as the time outside lights need to be on when leaving the house.
 
There is no belief that there is a down side to to being able to turn on a switch and have the light come on. Where did that idea come from ?
I couldn't find any downside to being able to turn on a switch and have the light come on.

The complexity that some home automation systems allow is the downside.
The downside is the often utter pointlessness of functionality which home automation systems enable and which people implement just because they can.


The bedroom lamp that starts to fade to dim and then go out all by itself confuses people who didn't realise the light was prgrammed to do that.
Indeed.

And the downside of "I've finished needing this light now so I'll just turn it off" is what, exactly?


Which is always in mind.
No - programming a light to fade is not KISS.

Having a switch to turn it on and off is KISS.


Hopefully after a few years of experience there will be no need to alter any of the parameters such as the time outside lights need to be on when leaving the house.
By all means hope.

But IMO designing a system to work within the context of what you hope conditions will be is not good design.
 
I can't help you with CBus but some more food for thought for you, having just 90% completed a rewire and built in intelligent control of the lights.

After much deliberation, and like ericmark I was also worried about future maintainability, I came up with the following system for lighting control.

2 standard steel enclosures housing a DIN rail each have been used. 1 for the downstairs lights mounted under the stairs tight up to the ceiling, and 1 for the upstairs lights mounted on the loft floor. In both enclosures a single rail on the long side of the box terminates a 2 core & E from every lamp and 3 core & E from every light switch, plus the radial from the CU and also an extra 4mm earth ( i like redundancy in a system and as I intend to use C6s for the lights it will drop the loop impedance even further).
All the connections are standard DIN rail terminals. The earths as usual go straight to the rail, the neutrals are bussed together across the top of the terminals, leaving only the switched lives to deal with on the other side of the terminals. In this way 2/3 of the interconnections are done with no further wiring.

The mains wiring and low voltage control wires do not share ducts. And the box downstairs has intumescent to shut the wiring duct in case of a fire.

The system has the following important (well to me anyway) features.

1) As the DIN rail is tight to one side this leaves most of the enclosure free for control gear. Also isolation and clearances are easier to achieve - all the mains stuff is one side leaving bought-in kit or custom PCB to do the rest.
2) There is no intelligence or other componentry to go wrong in inaccessible places. There are no joints in the system other than the ones in the enclosures and at the fittings. Inspection, test and trouble shooting is a doodle.
3) The system can easily be setup to work in exactly the same way as a traditional system by installing some temporary links into the DIN terminals, leaving you free to decide what control gear you want to use and when.
4) Every switch has a 3 core & earth to it just like you would with a 2 way switch. Some lights in the building need this, but with relay control if/when the control system fails it can easily be put back to traditional operation by removing the control system power. Also the system looks and behaves like a completely standard install should you so choose.
5) Each box has a couple of generic control wires to it allowing pretty much any control gear to be fitted. One is CAT5 the other is 2 shielded twisted pairs to look after anything that is RS485 like, so MODBUS/ProfiBus etc etc. This will give enough suitable wiring for balanced data comms and power/isolated power.
6) light fittings are easy to install as there's no overcrowding of terminals. Plus the system can be partially installed and run, adding to it as and when.
7) the core connectors of the system are industry standard and won't disappear, the control gear could be easily changed or scrapped completely.
8 ) The DIN rail terminals also obviate the so called 'choc bloc' connectors and/or joint boxes replacing them with cage clamp terminals which I've always prefered.
9) The CU end is normal, with 2 radials going out.
10) adding additional light fittings or functionality is very easy. So it would be reasonably future proof. Dare I say that!

Okay the control gear is different from what you'd usually find domestically but the rest isn't far away from regular stuff and could be maintained by a competent electrician. But stick a SCADA system in there and you're into industrial control and with its associated higher cost.

There's some lovely touchscreen HMI stuff about now but it's not cheap.

That sounds like a fantastic idea, I used to wire up control panels for building automation at Satchwell Conrol systems. I think I will use the same method when I start pulling in new wires.
 
What are the other benefits of domestic house lighting control with these methods? As far as I can see its just added expense which isn't really required. In a commercial or industrial environment I imagine there would be more use for this kind of system.
 
From my point of view, I just enjoy the automated options, like one button to watch a film, turn on amp, tv, close curtains and dim lights. For me it's a total personal thing. Also I work away a lot and enjoy remote control options of integrated alarm, CCTV and lighting control. I'm a big nerd really and just love the automated tech, like when're door bell is pressed,the front door CCTV camera feed pops up in PIP on TV, and on touch screen round the house.

I know lots of people don't like this stuff, but im just seeing what options are out there before I start pulling in new wires.
 

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