Archie Kidd Boilers

[GeorgeBramwell]

Yes, you have a non condensing welded tube boiler in the base, plus an economiser (secondary heat exchanger) in the area above. There is a lot of water in the two boilers, and the pump is sensibly located between the two to minimise turbulance etc.

The boiler is designed to act as a buffer between demand and burner.

It is not a modern product, being designed between 1959-1982, but the engineering principles were sound, and remain valid. Mr A Kidd managed to design the UK's first condensing boiler right first time.

Many modern boiler manufacturers with huge budgets and design teams have failed where he triumphed years before.

He demonstrated his Model 2 oil running (without a flue) in 1982 at the IEE London, to much acclaim.

Clearly representatives from some of the UK boiler industry weren't in the audience, because they were still designing rubbish 20 years later.

He triumphed with a large boiler, not a small wall hung model.

Is the pump a shunt pump or a pump for CH & DHW? I once fitted a DHW plate heat exchanger on a 60kW oil boiler that had a decent water content in the heat exchanger. It was an exterior model so well insulated but fitted indoors; got it cheap. The Kidd sound like it but gas. I arranged for it keep the boiler heat exchanger hot and when DHW called it operated like a combi. The flow rate from a 60kW boiler was superb and the integral water store in the boiler heat exchanger worked well indeed.

I have a job where using this way using an Archie Kidd (50-55 KW?) would save a lot of cost and space as no cylinder would be required. I need to know how the Kidd works. The Kidd must operate on gravity as it has a number of tappings. Does it have a fanned flue? It would be the price of the boiler, maybe a pump, flow switch and plate heat exchanger.

Obviously I would need to price up the Kidd boiler approx 50 KW upwards. Although an expensive boiler, savings on cylinders and valves would offset that.

If I had to go for U16 gas meter, what is the cost of having a meter this large?

 

[mickyg]

what you need is a high flow combi. Look at the remeha avanta 39c or the ethos, or why not consider a thermal store

 

[simond]

Kidd boilers are available in NG and Oil and the nearest outputs to your requirements are 46 and 75Kw respectively.

They do not modulate and cannot be connected to gravity circuits, we don't supply them, we are an installer. Probably best you speak to Kidd on 01380 828490.

 

[GeorgeBramwell]

what you need is a high flow combi. Look at the remeha avanta 39c or the ethos, or why not consider a thermal store

I do need a high flow combi and one with a large output and the Kidd might do it, otherwise a thermal store as you suggest is worth considering.

 

[GeorgeBramwell]

Kidd boilers are available in NG and Oil and the nearest outputs to your requirements are 46 and 75Kw respectively.

They do not modulate and cannot be connected to gravity circuits, we don't supply them, we are an installer. Probably best you speak to Kidd on 01380 828490.

Thanks. I could do it using a three way diverter valve. It needs fully pumping via an external pipe from flow to return to maintain the heat exchanger temperature. It still may do it. Being a single stage burner and a simple boiler, it appears the ideal mate for a thermal store.

 

[simond]

If it is HW you are after, why not try an ACV Heatmaster TC?

It is a proper light commercial heatstore boiler and gives HW in fully condensing mode. Customer service is lousy though.

 

[GeorgeBramwell]

If it is HW you are after, why not try an ACV Heatmaster TC?

It is a proper light commercial heatstore boiler and gives HW in fully condensing mode. Customer service is lousy though.

I know of the Heatmaster and like the boiler. It is unique being the only boiler of that type. Customer service is important. I may need a boiler over 60 KW for CH only which maybe put the Heatmaster out of the running. I am looking at cost effective options. Large CH and 3 bathrooms and 3 showers must be run all at once, baths will a rarely be run all at once. 50-60 KW will supply 3 showers instantly. ideally no cylinder in the house to save space. Using large boilers and plate heat exchangers for DHW can save space and cost.

I may split it and use two quality and cheaper mass produced boilers around 30 KW which will most probably work out cheaper.

 

[simond]

You've always got the HeatMaster 85TC, that should more than cover it.

We had an issue with a delivered damaged unit, the merchant damaged it, not ACV, and there was a bit of a drama. Other than that it looks very well made. Can be fitted with weather comp inexpensively.

 

[GeorgeBramwell]

You've always got the HeatMaster 85TC, that should more than cover it.

We had an issue with a delivered damaged unit, the merchant damaged it, not ACV, and there was a bit of a drama. Other than that it looks very well made. Can be fitted with weather comp inexpensively.

Had a deeper look yesterday. The gas main is 3/4" and a U6 meter fitted. The CH load is 80KW. The gas main needs uprating, but not an option because of a newish driveway and the length which would be expensive to upgrade. I was sceptical of what the gas main could deliver and using an old flame trap measured the gas flow through the main at full open end. It was 6.5 cu metres, so OK, but no good for a U16. This means a boiler no larger than 60kW. The 85TC is out. So maybe two 30KW boilers.

This leaves me to consider a thermal store to get the 80KW needed to heat the house. The stored heat will fill the shortfall in KW the boilers cannot deliver. The store can go in the garage where the boiler was to go and the boiler(s) in an insulated lean-too shed at the rear.

 

[ProudKiddBoilerEngineer01]

Have they improved the C***py Condensate Tray design yet?? it's the only thing wrong with the kidd design, I've lost count on the number of condenser trays that have rotted through causing acidic water to rust the outer casing through ..............

Having been an oil firing service engineer for many years I first came across Kidd Boilers when I was asked by a local plumber to "wire one up" It looked a little different I remember thinking. Now many years later I have my own Kidd safely installed in my boiler room shed with underground piping to my heating system. The Kidd has never let me down. Oh I nearly forgot, I should have said that I bought the model 1 (Rarer than Hens teeth) after it was replaced with a model two Kidd in a major refurb job. The Model 1 had done sterling service for ten years before I got my hands on it. YES THAT'S RIGHT I paid good money for a TEN YEAR OLD BOILER to install in my own property, safe in the knowledge that The Kidd Boiler will serve me faithfully for many many years to come.
I want to restate this. I am an Heating engineer with some 30 years under my belt & YES I bought a 10 year old Second Hand Boiler.
Ask yourself why would I do such a thing?
The answer is simple, Quality is worth having, & The Kidd Boiler is Top Quality.

Finally I would like to address the unkind & ill informed individual who queried on this forum whether Kidd “ Have they improved the C***py Condensate Tray design yet??”
If you do not regularly service your car, the engine could seize, Battery fail, Tyres go flat etc. But THIS IS ALL THE FAULT OF THE MANUFACTURER not the owner!!! (Clearly nonsense)
The Kidd Boiler is a class piece of equipment, that has cost a fair price for a quality built in Britain product. They are superb and will last decades, IF REGULARLY SERVICED & looked after.
In all my years of servicing Kidd & other boilers, I have only replaced two condensate trays. These boilers had been neglected for years before the customer contacted me.
I stand by the fine reputation of Kidd, who I have the honour of being one of their engineers.

 

[Dan Robinson]

 

[MJGas]

Well that is one of the best first posts I have seen

 

[Dan Robinson]

4 and a half year old thread revival


Of course an aluminium vapour tray (assuming that is what the Kidd has) is a stooopid idea, and no amount of annual servicing will prevent it rotting through. Collateral damage is of course limited when regular servicing is done properly. Funny how many customers don't like ot pay for that degree of servicing though.

Two of my favourite boilers have Ali vapour trays, and I think it is daft. Pressing them in SS would be too expensive though.

 

[Boilerman2]

Made me chuckle!! I am an oil & gas engineer with 38 years experience! -
the condensate tray is a stupid design end off, if it had a lip on each end things would be much better, the fact that a bead of mastic is all there is to stop the condensate leaking is just silly!

By the way the Range originally came in three sizes,
Model 1 60,000 -90,000 Btu'hr
Model 2 100,000 - 160,000 Btu/hr
Model 3 360,000 Btu/hr

They then came up with the model 260 (yep you guessed 260,000 Btu/hr)
available to operate on Fuel oil (Class C) or Natural & LP gasses
Oh I used to work for a main agent for Kidd in East Anglia, and had the pleasure of meeting and working with Archie Kidd on many occasions!