Architect fees

[wobbly2]

I'm trying to help a friend with modifying her late dad's 50's/60's 2 bedroom bungalow (approx 11.8m x 6.4m) with a small galley kitchen and even smaller bathroom. I've done oodles of (accurate?) drawings to try and show what might be possible. The latest option is to put a full width box dormer across the rear of the property to give 2 large bedrooms and a larger bathroom, for this an LDC has already been granted.

I'm no architect, building designer or the like but did work in the building trade for 30 odd years so I do have some knowledge. I told my friend that she would have to get proper drawings done for building control, structural calcs and construction and suggested she got an architect in to ask if he/she would be willing to:

1. Provide the necessary drawings.
2. Come up with their own ideas for the dormer.
3. Suggest alternative solutions.

The architect that came round is registered as a Chartered Member on the RIBA website and seemed impressed with my scribblings, least ways asked if they had been done on AutoCad, which they hadn't.

The architect has come back with the following prices and I'm wondering if these are reasonable:-

To draw up sketch design ideas of alternative options based on the drawings so far produced and to discuss with you before getting some budget estimates from builders I know. £600+Vat

To do a check survey and Building Regulations Drawings and submission for the PD loft Conversion already approved with CLD from Council £1500+Vat

Extra-over cost (i.e. instead of £1500) if it’s decided to go with an alternative design for a PD loft and we need to re-apply for CLD. £1800+Vat

For drawing up an agreed design for an extension and alterations design and getting pre-planning advice and applying for full planning permission (or CLD) £900+Vat

Building Regulations drawings and application for an extension and alterations scheme £900+Vat

I assume where the architect mentions CLD he means Certificate of Lawful Development AKA LDC (Lawful Development Certificate) ???

I am probably way out of touch but £600+Vat seems a bit steep just to get sight of his ideas in the form of sketches??? I wondered if he thinks I will poach them and then go elsewhere, which I won't.

I've read on this site that architect fees up to 12% of the project costs is about norm, which makes the above seem rather cheap assuming project cost of £65K (43m2 x £1500/m2)

 

[Ian H]

Try an Architectural Technician instead.

If you could get a personal recommendation for one it would be better than what I did. I chose one off the council website, he was listed as a ‘partner’, turned out he was less than useless.

 

[tony1851]

As above, don't waste money on an RIBA. A good local technician would be able to do just as good a job for far less.
And don't forget that dormer conversions require inputs on sizes of main beams, for which you will need structural calculations by an engineer, the cost of which is an addition to the architect's fees.

 

[paulrockliffe]

I used an architectural technician for a loft conversion and extension, planning permission and building regs full plans, so essentially what you have there. Paid £1300 and worked through maybe 4 design ideas before getting to a final design, so that quote sounds quite expensive to me.

 

[^woody^]

You should not be paying more than £1k for both planning and building control drawings including initial designs. Plus any engineer's calculations and plus council fees.

 

[wobbly2]

Thanks for the replies, much appreciated.

^woody^, or anyone else come to that, is the £1k price reasonable for the Berkshire/North Hampshire area?

What should we expect to pay for the engineer's calculations, again in Berkshire/North Hampshire area?

Perhaps a silly question - Presumably whoever is chosen to draw up the Building Regs plans would liaise with the structural engineer to ensure what was drawn could actually be built (at a reasonable cost) and adjust his/her drawings accordingly within the original budget?

 

[tony1851]

Plan drawers do not necessarily liase with SEs - you will probably see words such as "beams to SE's specification" or suchlike dotted around the drawing. The SE usually just works off the architects plans without necessarily visiting the site.
If the SE sees something on the plan which would clearly be structurally problematic, he would be morally bound to advise the plan drawer.

 

[^woody^]

Get quotes from suitable designers other than AIB Architects - who will charge top rates for no purpose and no value for this type of work.

 

[John D v2.0]

Architect is paid so much to understand how you want to use the space better then you do and put things on the plan to make it worth best for you.
If you have already done that part and you are happy with the usability of the space then don't spend the extra.
We paid nearly 10% for architect and se combined, but they were actually working together to get the best design for the budget and they did all stages up to tender, and then inspections, redesigning and advice during the building work.
We needed one because when looking at houses we saw that 50% of extensions were basically boxes on the back or side and of varying degrees of usability. We wanted something that looked like it was supposed to be there both in terms of layout and appearance.
If an architect is charging 12% then presumably they are also on site dealing with the builder and taking responsibility for making sure things are done correctly.

 

[^woody^]

Architect is paid so much to understand how you want to use the space better then you do and put things on the plan to make it worth best for you.

Anyone designing extensions should be doing that very thing, and its not just the case of drawing a box on the back or side of the house, or a few walls in the loft. I know that many designers don't, but clients should be expecting it from their designers.

Generally the value an Architect brings, is the enhanced design flair and ideas, so unless a home owner wants that then it's not worth the additional cost - ie for a standard extension or conversion.

The other thing that comes with an Architect is that they have to follow a specific process - the RIBA Plan of Work. This should give added security for a client, but again its a bit pointless for relatively low value and less involved extension and conversion work.