Are Junction Boxes allowed on lighting circuits under regs

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Hello,

Just looking at designing the lighting for my extension. I believe I was right in saying that Junction boxes (olds style) aren't really allowed any more? Is that correct?

If that is so doesn't it then become quite crowded in a loop in system i.e. power from last light, power to next light, cable to switch. Whats the normal way to do things nowadays?

Thanks in advance
Bonce
 
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As long as the j/b is accessible for maintainance they can be used. Ther is nothing wrong with using the "loop in" system the ceiling roses are quite capable of taking the cables.
 
Just looking at designing the lighting for my extension. I believe I was right in saying that Junction boxes (olds style) aren't really allowed any more? Is that correct?
No.

If they use screwed connections they must remain accessible for inspection.
Maintenance free ones are available now with spring connectors and these may be hidden although best avoided if possible.
 
Hello,
Just looking at designing the lighting for my extension. I believe I was right in saying that Junction boxes (olds style) aren't really allowed any more? Is that correct?
Accessible or maintenance free are but a properly designed circuit should not need junction boxes.

If that is so doesn't it then become quite crowded in a loop in system i.e. power from last light, power to next light, cable to switch. Whats the normal way to do things nowadays?
There is more than enough room in a ceiling rose - use 1mm² T&E - there is no need to use anything else unless you intend to cook with your lights.
The alternate is to bring the power (Live, Neutral and Earth) to the switch and loop in and out of the switches. When doing it this way it is best to use 25mm back boxes.
 
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When doing it this way it is best to use 25mm back boxes.
Ahem....
When doing it this way it is best to use 32mm back boxes
Ah I should have said I have always used a minimum of 25mm - though I have never had a problem with space using this size. 35mm or even 47mm for grid switches though.
Anyway I cannot get 32mm deep single back boxes around here - loads of 35mm or 47mm though.
TTC Where do you get your 32mm back boxes from??
 
When looping in at switch, I tend to fit 35mm back boxes, this allows for joints and the possibility of dimmers being fitted.
 
I generally fit 35mm all the time these days - regardless of what it's for. Very little extra work to sink 10mm further.

Loop at switches is very common these days, with perhaps just the first floor using the traditional 3 plate system in bedrooms.

25mm can be a godsend on large commercial jobs where the spec is usually to tw@t the boxes to the wall without chasing, cap or clip the cables, and the dot and dabber will bring the wall out to fit.

On domestics, it is usual to sink a 25mm back box in a touch, so you may aswell sink that tad further and fit 35mm.
 
If that is so doesn't it then become quite crowded in a loop in system i.e. power from last light, power to next light, cable to switch.
It really depends entirely on what sort of light fittings you are installing.

Traditional british ceiling roses and battern holders are explicitly designed for loop in wiring and therefore have the space and terminals to do it easily and neatly.

Striplights while not explicitly designed for loop in wiring have a shedload of room inside so doing loop in wiring in them is not a problem.

The problem comes when you start trying to fit fancy fittings. Virtually none of them are explicitly designed for loop in wiring and some of them have very little space inside. As a result Loop in wiring of such fittings is often a pain in the arse.

I believe I was right in saying that Junction boxes (olds style) aren't really allowed any more? Is that correct?
They have to be accessible for inspection. Some electricians take a narrower view than others on what can be considered as accessible for inspection but in general it's hard to ensure they both are accessible and stay accessible (sure it might be an unboarded loft now but what are the chances of someone covering it in chipboard in future without thinking about the electics).

Maintinance free junction boxes can be used in inaccessible locations but I would still consider inaccessible junctions to be a last resort.

And then there is the big problem that records that should be kept often aren't so even if there is a non-destructive way to access a junction the record of where the box is and how to access it may well be lost.

Overall while junction boxes aren't forbidden per-se I'd say they are something to be avoided where possible.

Whats the normal way to do things nowadays?
It depends on what the goals of the person specifying the are.

If the lights being installed are pendants in most rooms and a striplight in the kitchen then loop in at the lights is likely the cheapest and easiest way to do it. As such if you don't specify what you want it is what you are likely to get.

Personally I would specify looping at the switches. It does mean a bit more wire and deeper swich boxes but it means you can easilly fit whatever fittings you like without having to worry about how you are going to fit the loop in wiring into the fitting . It also means you have a neutral at the switches which will make adding wall lights or switched round pin sockets later easier.
 
Is it acceptable nowadays to use the old round J/b's with no cable restraint, i thought they were only ok nowadays if the cables clipped and restrained, rather than pushed through a downlighter hole.

I have seen modern versions with cable clamps built in
 
Is it acceptable nowadays to use the old round J/b's with no cable restraint, i thought they were only ok nowadays if the cables clipped and restrained, rather than pushed through a downlighter hole.
I supposes that's technically true - we're all still so used to see such JBs 'lying loose' that we tend to forget that!
I have seen modern versions with cable clamps built in
Indeed. The maintenance free ones (both Ashleys and Wagoboxes) obviously have cable restraints. Also with restraints and 'made for the (lighting) job' (but not MF) is:
ASJ501X.JPG


...and arguably even better/more convenient is something like:

TLCT100C.JPG


Kind Regards, John
 
Thanks very much all fo ll of the responses. The loop in at the switches seems the way to go to me and sensible. Agree with all that is said abut JB (even maintenance free), so will avoid and ask for looped in at switches to give me the flexibility in the future.

MOre then happy to sink in 45mm boxes as well.

Many thanks all once again. Much obliged
 

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