Are these C2s or C3s

[Yanni]

I had a failed EICR in one of the rentals and i get mixed opinions about it.
My electrician said that if the installation has not been modified then all the C2s should have been C3s and they do that so the electricians that carried out the inspection get more work. I went through an agency for the EICR this time.

As this is the second failed EICR that they performed can i get your opinion please. The other rental the performed the EICR they complained about the bonding being 6mm and not 10mm and wanted to add an extra RCD in a split load CU. ( around £500 worth of work they asked for )

On this one they want £800 to swap the CU to an RCBO board( 4 circuits only )

I attach the EICR findings.

 

[pete01]

A board change and a bonding upgrade does look needed to me.

 

[Murdochcat]

Agree with the above but I would suggest you get a couple more quotes for the replacement

Where in the UK are you?

 

[Yanni]

Manchester, I will use my own electrician as I want a Hager board with SPD and a few blanks for future installations such as an electric car circuit

 

[Murdochcat]

FWIW 6 mm bonding is a C3 if there are no signs of thermal damage

 

[Yanni]

FWIW 6 mm bonding is a C3 if there are no signs of thermal damage

ok I see

 

[EFLImpudence]

FWIW 6 mm bonding is a C3 if there are no signs of thermal damage

I don't think that is correct.
After all how would it ever be damaged by heat until it was needed?

It is something that should be corrected when work is carried out.

 

[plugwash]

The sad fact is there are few cast-iron rules on coding, there is lots of industry guidance but industry guidance is not the law, it's not even BS7671.

My electrician said that if the installation has not been modified then all the C2s should have been C3s

BS7671 says something along the lines of "installations designed to previous versions of this standard are not necessarily unsafe for continued use".

I've run into a few electricians who interpret this as saying any installation that complied with the regs at the time of installation and that has not degraded should be considered OK for continued use.

I see a couple of problems with this view.

1. it says "not necessarily" rather than just "not". This IMO leaves things wide-open to judgement.
2. Prior to the 16th edition the IEE wiring regs were not a british standard. So it's not clear if "this standard" should be read to include editions prior to the 16th.

The "industry guidance" on EICRs says nothing about when the installation was installed, or whether it has been modified since. It focuses entirely on the condition of the installation as it stands at the time of inspection.

and they do that so the electricians that carried out the inspection get more work.

Very likely.

Lets take a look at the C2s in your report.

No RCD protection for socket outlets. Guidance says this is a C2 if the socket outlets can reasonably be expected to supply equipment outdoors. IMO unless this is an upper-floor flat then at least some sockets can be reasonably expected to supply equipment outdoors.

No RCD protection *AND* no suppelementary bonding for bathroom circuits. Guidance says this is a C2.

Regarding the bonding, the wording on your report isn't very clear but guidance says that "Absence of effective main protective bonding of extraneous-conductive-parts entering the building" and "Inadequate cross-sectional area of a main protective bonding conductor where the conductor is less than 6 mm2 or where there is evidence of thermal damage" are C2 but that "Undersized cross-sectional area of a main protective bonding conductor provided that the conductor is at least 6 mm2 and there is no evidence of thermal damage" is "NC only" (a non-conformity that doesn't rise to the level of a code).

 

[Murdochcat]

Bottom line it’s a rental and how would you feel about your tenant getting a very nasty shock ?

 

[Murdochcat]

I don't think that is correct.
After all how would it ever be damaged by heat until it was needed?

It is something that should be corrected when work is carried out.

Best practice Guide no 7

 

[EFLImpudence]

Best practice Guide no 7

Who wrote that?

The sad fact is there are few cast-iron rules on coding, there is lots of industry guidance but industry guidance is not the law, it's not even BS7671.

...nor written by anyone with any authority.


My point is that:

The size of main bonding conductors was raised to 10mm² because the DNOs failed to maintain their cables properly so that the main bonding conductor might have to conduct high current in the event of a fault.

If such a fault has never occurred on a particular conductor, why would it show signs of thermal damage?

Yet it might be too small to cope when such a fault does occur; therefore...

 

[Murdochcat]

Who wrote that?

Down load a copy and you’ll see the long list of contributors

What always makes me chuckle is that Napit are named but their “code breakers” guide differs

 

[Risteard]

Manchester, I will use my own electrician as I want a Hager board with SPD and a few blanks for future installations such as an electric car circuit

Hager may not be the best option for that, as their single module RCBOs do not break the neutral, which is a requirement for a circuit supplying an EVSE.

 

[flameport]

As this is the second failed EICR that they performed can i get your opinion please.

Pretty much correct, and the reality is that that 1970s wooden cased fusebox should have been replaced several decades ago.

 

[SUNRAY]

I've seen a lot worse.