At my wits end, what am i doing wrong.

[lsearson]

hi all, im gonna hit you with whats seems a big headache for me.

i have a glowworm economy plus EP50F boiler Gas, which lights and does what i want it to (i hope). a Grundfos selectric 15-50 Pump tried removing screw from middle all going round fine, and not making any nice but occasional swirling. new cylinder. and 2 new 3way port box things i cant remember the name of them now. 1St of all unsure of how long any of this has been there recently moved in.

I live in a 3 storey town house, boiler on ground floor tanks on 3rd floor. top two floors heat is great. very hot, but ground i have no heat at all. i drained out many times from drain plug and through all of the 3 rads downstairs refill but no luck. I then added Fernox sludge remover heated it all up had it running no luck downstairs, turned 3rd floor rads off then turned 2nd floor rads off now all rads off except downstairs all rads stone cold then my tank overflows water comes out of overflow pipe.

The bit that confuses me is that if i take the bleed valve out of any of the rads downstairs eventually i will get boiling water but when i put the valve back in the rad within minutes it turns stone cold. also i know its the water from the tank because its green/yellow which is the fernox. and to me if this is happening indicates there might not be a blockage?

So with this i replaced a rad downstairs which i believe is the 1st rad to come from the 2nd floor and still no luck this hasnt changed a thing.
also i have 3rads on each floor 1 large and 2 medium.

I hope someone out there can shed some light on this issue

thank again

 

[chrishutt]

To determine if you have a blockage in either of the pipes to the ground floor, first close off all the rads (as you have done) and remove 1 ground floor rad. Then open each valve in turn, having set up a suitable receptacle for the water. If there is a blockage, you will get little if any flow. This procedure may even clear a blockage, in which case expect lots of very dirty water!

 

[Agile]

He seems to be talking about some two or three port valves at the beginning.

It is possible that there is a zoned system each floor or on the ground and then the 2/3 floors together.

If these valve things have a little lever on the end then move it across and make it sit in the little notch to one side. Then see if the downstairs rads come on?

Tony Glazier

 

[PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN]

Blimey, for the amount of money and time he has spent himself, a decent plumber/heating engineer could have found the problem and sorted it for less.

 

[Diyisfun]

PEDANTICVINDICTIVEMAN

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Blimey, for the amount of money and time he has spent himself, a decent plumber/heating engineer could have found the problem

How many times have we all started a job that seemed easy at the time. Maybe this is just one of them jobs.

 

[lsearson]

thanx all for the reply

chris hutt, when i remove one rad downstairs do i have the heating on while im doing this and what do i do with the pipes from the removed rad do i lock them off or just drain out. and i assume if i dont have a blockage water should shoot out.

one more thing is the pump i have not strong enough for my size house

thanx

 

[chrishutt]

I think Tony spotted the key to the problem - if there are 2 x 3 port motorised valves, there must be 2 or 3 heating zones, so if both motorised valves are manually opened, the problem should be resolved. If the motorised valve serving the ground floor doesn't open automatically (when system is running) check the controls linked to it - programmer/room stat.

 

[chrishutt]

Our posts crossed! To answer your points, do not run the system when carrying out the test I suggested. The valves to the removed rad should be shut initially, but opened in turn to see if water flows freely or not. But first check the points in my previous post, the ones spotted by Tony earlier.

 

[bathjobby]

If you only recently moved in, why not contact the previous owner and ask for instructions. If you don't have their new address, go through the solicitors used for the recent sale / purchase to contact them. Additionally, contacting them that way will put the frighteners on them if they have knowingly left you with a none functioning system. Chances are a phone call will resolve this and its easier to do then blindly removing rads and the like.

 

[lsearson]

wow so many replys. thanx guys.
Can i just say one thing i know i stated that i had x2 3port valves im mistaken sorry i have x2 2port motorised valves. does that change anything. If i unscrew the motorsied actuator im left with a little valve i will try turning both manually but if i do this do i need to have all rads open or can i have top 2 levels closed off and just ground floor open.and why do i need x2 motorised valve or is that right.

also one more question. when i shut off my rads im only closing off open feed is this right or do i need both turned off for this test to be carried out correctly

thanx again guys

 

[gazthepottertonengineer]

if you only have two 2 port valves then that is not obviously the problem it does sound like your pump isnt powerful enough as i would have fitted a 15-60 on a 3 storey property but to test if this is the problem simply turn of all radiators except for ones not working and run system if they do get hot i would try 15-60 pump change

 

[chrishutt]

OK, now we hopefully have some accurate information. Your 2 motorised (2 port!) valves control the heating circuit and the hot water cylinder circuit. So we are back to looking for a blockage.

I cannot agree with gazthepottertonengineer that you need a more powerful pump. A normal 5 metre head pump, set on its highest speed, should be more than adequate.

When I said close off the other rads, I meant shut one of the two valves on each, just to stop water flowing through the rad. Then carry out the test I described before.

 

[doitall]

Yes Gas for a change I'm inclined to agree with you. Except I don't think thats the real cause of the problem, sure a bigger pump would shift more water and maybe all will be ok, but the system pumps over already a bigger pump will increase the problem.

We need more info on the system, we seem to have an S plan, and I shall assume the hot water cylinder gets hot, and takes care of 1 valve. Therefore the other valve is for the heating,

where are the cold feed and vent ?

How is the heating piped up, from the cylinder cupb then drop to the lower floors, and what size pipes to each floor.

Can you email me a drawing Isearson roughly showing the pipewortk.

 

[bathjobby]

HELLO ?
Why not just ask the person you bought it from for operating instructions !

 

[lsearson]

hi, bathjobby. its an ex council property which was rented and rented until i bought it.do know the people previously in the house but they just lived with no heating downstairs.

doitall. hot water cylinder gets hot, i have tanks just above 3rd floor, cylinder on 2nd floor, boiler on 1st floor, pipes which go to and from tanks cylinder and boiler are 22mm and pipes to all rads are 8 or 10mm. there is an air release vent thing (round copper stump with hole in top to release unwanted air) in front of cylinder, apart from that no other venting that i can see. 3 drain plugs, 1 beside boiler, 1 beside cylinder, 1 ground floor lowest point. cant draw any pics using internet cafe and no other programs installed. so mains water comes from the back of the house boiler at back of house. pipes then travel up back of house until 2nd floor, across 2nd floor to cylinder in middle of house, then pipes travel up again to 3rd floor then across 3rd floor and up again to loft where tanks are which is front of the house. one more thing above the boiler the pipes are in a H shape if you can imagine bottom left and bottom right of H go into boiler and top goes in to the ceiling the line in the middle is joint with a stop cock which does not turn is this playing anypart.

i hope i have made sense thank you every one so much