ATTENTION all ppl who put DIYERS off
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My opinion is the problem with him installing the cable was that he didn't know what size to use and wouldn't have known the detail about permitted zones for concealed cables and installing cables through joists etc, so there was a lot of potential for him doing a bad job in just laying-in the cable before connecting anything. All that stuff is well documented in books but his attitude was that he wasn't prepared to do a bit of homework because he didn't have time.
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shaggy said:
Eh? Somebody call me?
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One point no-one seems to have raised is that the advice on these forums is free. No-one is being paid to contribute and share their wealth of experience.
The people here are sharing their knowledge of the trade learnt through years of hard work and study. They are not doing it put you off and to gain your business, they are doing it for.... Why are they doing it again???
So don't knock them if they are concerned for the safety of you or others.
What's the expression, gift horse, mouth???
I have personally learnt a great deal from these forums just by reading others posts and what shocks me is what little I knew when I thought I had a good understanding. Pie, of the humble variety...
The people here are sharing their knowledge of the trade learnt through years of hard work and study. They are not doing it put you off and to gain your business, they are doing it for.... Why are they doing it again???
So don't knock them if they are concerned for the safety of you or others.What's the expression, gift horse, mouth???
I have personally learnt a great deal from these forums just by reading others posts and what shocks me is what little I knew when I thought I had a good understanding. Pie, of the humble variety...
A DIY book will show you the correct way to wire up things even the correct colour coding BUT it's the subtle things you only learn from experience little things like how tight to do up terminals for instance, a lot of beginners will 90% of the time overtighten and fracture the cable termination whereas a tradesman has gone through this learning curve many times and knows exactly what torque to do the terminal up to purely by feel.
Then of course there are the multitude of regulations that he will have spent years to learn and will still to this day be learning as they change so often.
Years of having safe practice drummed into you at college and during apprenticeships makes the tradesman think safety first then the job in hand, whereas a Diy'er will think about how he/she will do the job without the automatic surveying of the job's possible inherent safety aspects, it is then that the potential dangers expose themselves.
As a tradesman for 30 yrs I don't question that a diy'er hasn't the ability to make something work but in so doing have they considered whether the installation has been done to a safe standard that will stay so for many years to come?
Then of course there are the multitude of regulations that he will have spent years to learn and will still to this day be learning as they change so often.
Years of having safe practice drummed into you at college and during apprenticeships makes the tradesman think safety first then the job in hand, whereas a Diy'er will think about how he/she will do the job without the automatic surveying of the job's possible inherent safety aspects, it is then that the potential dangers expose themselves.
As a tradesman for 30 yrs I don't question that a diy'er hasn't the ability to make something work but in so doing have they considered whether the installation has been done to a safe standard that will stay so for many years to come?
when i totally rewired my bathroom with 6 x 50 watt downlighters & a timer controlled extractor fan with built in 50 watt bulb i took ages drawing wiring diagrams/planning the route of wires/position of switches etc...i also took advice from this forum and a diy book from B&Q.i used 6" long black plastic soil pipes to protect the loft insulation from the heat of the bulbs.when my father an electrician by trde checked it all out he was totally confused as to how it worked i just told him i took the original ceiling rose off & added a junction box with 6 wires from it for the lights & an extra wire for the extractor.i incorporated another wire which was conected to a pullstring switch.the correct wire was used & all connections were made good but my dad still could not get his head around the fact that it worked he spent hours drawing wiring diagrams saying to me things like "which is the switched live" or how have you connected that"he would have been happier to be in on the job from the start but i got him to check it all out before the lighting circuit was turned back on.what i would like to say is as long as you plan & double then triple check all your connections with a meter & don't rush it then the job will only be as complicated or as hard as you make it.but i would never start touching cu's or the big stuff.hope this does'nt come across as condescending.
i just told him i took the original ceiling rose off & added a junction box with 6 wires from it for the lights & an extra wire for the extractor.i incorporated another wire which was conected to a pullstring switch.the correct wire was used & all connections were made good but my dad still could not get his head around the fact that it worked he spent hours drawing wiring diagrams saying to me things like "which is the switched live" or how have you connected that"he would have been happier to be in on the job from the start but i got him to check it all out before the lighting circuit was turned back on.what i would like to say is as long as you plan & double then triple check all your connections with a meter & don't rush it then the job will only be as complicated or as hard as you make it.but i would never start touching cu's or the big stuff.hope this does'nt come across as condescending. Not at all, you probably have done an excellant job the point being made is house wiring as other diy jobs can cause injury to the person doing the job or others if the alarm bells havn't sounded over certain working practices which to the uninitiated may not be as obvious as they would to someone qualified (as said before we all did things wrong whilst being trained but the many years of experience/training make you do things proper in the end) , lets face it house wiring isn't exactly rocket science and i'm sure a high percentage of people will make something work either first or second time the big question is how many would do it to an approved standard?
I'm not stopping anyone doing what they want to and I would be overstepping the mark if i did, it's just the responsibility of a qualified person to point out the pitfalls otherwise they are failing in their duties of safety.
I'm not stopping anyone doing what they want to and I would be overstepping the mark if i did, it's just the responsibility of a qualified person to point out the pitfalls otherwise they are failing in their duties of safety.
andrew2022 said:
Alas andrew2022, I don't recall electricity giving some people a chance to learn the second time around.
Sometimes a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. I, for one, appreciate greatly the advice from the pros on this forum and as MMJ has previously stated it's often the case that 'you don't know' that you don't know.
At the end of the day no one is trying to put people off. They are just giving advice based on their knowledge and experience. You don't have to take their advice but you should respect the fact that they have the right to say what they think about what you are planning because you've asked them for their advice. Also it would be negligent of someone to tell someone how to do something if they felt that it would be unsafe for the person to do it.
If i asked a mechanic how to change my fuel tank, and he told me to leave it to a proffesional like himself, I would not hesitate to book it in to be done.
DIY'ers need to know their limits, and sadly, many dont. There is LOADS of extremely poor NEW wiring around, not all of it dangerous (but still damn right awfull).
Electrocution is not the worst side effect of electrickery, FIRE is.
DIY'ers need to know their limits, and sadly, many dont. There is LOADS of extremely poor NEW wiring around, not all of it dangerous (but still damn right awfull).
Electrocution is not the worst side effect of electrickery, FIRE is.
S
supersparks
andrew2022 said:waran said:andrew2022 said:
Alas andrew2022, I don't recall electricity giving some people a chance to learn the second time around.
u had no experience/knowledge in this at one time. same goes for every1 here
an then we went on a 4 year apprentership backed up by city and guilds and or NVQs-PEOs, hard study and onsite experience, continuing to learn every day.
if you want us to give advice to people who blatently dont have the faintest what they are doing then you can pay us a consultation and design fee and we will happily provide all the info they need, instalation is easy, getting it right is hard if you dont know how.
and before you come back with 'well tell them how'- how do we know what the circamstances are of the job? we have never seen it, infact id say that a fair proportion of advice although 'correct' is actuly wrong in the job in question, because people dont know what they are saying, could you have a conversation with somone about quantum physics with somone and have them properly engaged in conversation instead of em thinking "TW@t"(fort all i know you could but just as an example
electricity, if you want to know why what your doing works, weather it complys, if its done properly isnt simple
i could name factors you have never herd of that need to be taken into account in certain instals
and most diyers wont have acsess to the kit needed to confirm/ get the base readings to start with
also bas
like the emotion....i agreeDIYnot Local
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