Bathroom Electric Query

[acmedone]

To satisfy my curiosity, do you or anybody else have any opinion on why the authorities thought the positioning of low voltage fittings was their concern?

You presumably mean 12V which is extra-low voltage - normal mains is low voltage (not high voltage).

Yes, I meant elv as did Welshjeff1000. Something like this http://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-fixed-white-12v-low-voltage-bathroom-downlights-pack-of-3/34883 Complete kits can be bought.

The positioning of them is not the issue.

Not within a zone. But in the sense that they are concerned when things move from outside to within zones 1 & 2.

Except for "preassembled lighting set bearing the CE marking referred to in regulation 9 of the Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 1994(1)"
they are classed as a special installation and are notifiable.

I would think the reason is because the low voltage results in high current, leading to circuit design issues.

CE not known here but although it requires the parts to be plugged together the cables are preassembled, so there are no design/workmanship issues.

 

[welshjeff]

Thanks all. I'm happy with the quality of work I've done and see no point now in telling anyone as there's nothing that can be done. Will disclose when I sell, which as I've only just moved in won't be for a while.

Spoke to a few people today who have done similar renovations and were as surprised as I was re notifiable. Guess I'm not alone. Can't believe there's no retrospective way to certify. Oh well...

 

[acmedone]

Do you want the official Government answer, or the truth?

Well I only asked for an opinion. If you have inside knowledge, even better.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Spoke to a few people today who have done similar renovations and were as surprised as I was re notifiable. Guess I'm not alone. Can't believe there's no retrospective way to certify. Oh well...

A retrospective method to certificate, would be to do the whole installations.
Are the cables visually accessible from above and can the route of the cables be confirmed?

 

[EFLImpudence]

To satisfy my curiosity, do you or anybody else have any opinion on why the authorities thought the positioning of low voltage fittings was their concern?

You presumably mean 12V which is extra-low voltage - normal mains is low voltage (not high voltage).

Yes, I meant elv as did Welshjeff1000. Something like this http://www.screwfix.com/p/lap-fixed-white-12v-low-voltage-bathroom-downlights-pack-of-3/34883 Complete kits can be bought.

By definition a kit is not pre-assembled.

The positioning of them is not the issue.

Not within a zone. But in the sense that they are concerned when things move from outside to within zones 1 & 2.

You are confusing separate things.

Work in zones 1 & 2 is always notifiable, whatever work it is.

Work on 12V lighting (except pre-assembled) is always notifiable wherever it is.

Except for "preassembled lighting set bearing the CE marking referred to in regulation 9 of the Electrical Equipment (Safety) Regulations 1994(1)"
they are classed as a special installation and are notifiable.

I would think the reason is because the low voltage results in high current, leading to circuit design issues.

CE not known here but although it requires the parts to be plugged together the cables are preassembled, so there are no design/workmanship issues.

Not sure what you mean about CE not known - otherwise yes.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Do you want the official Government answer, or the truth?

I cannot possibly perceive there would be a difference.

Both ?

1) In order to bring about a meaningful and cost effective reduction in deaths, injuries and other losses resulting from electrical work done in a poor and uncontrolled manner.

2) To line the pockets of the electrical contracting industry bodies.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Spoke to a few people today who have done similar renovations and were as surprised as I was re notifiable.

There is absolutely no excuse for someone doing building work not knowing about the Building Regulations. I wonder what else you and the people you have spoken to have done which was illegal.

Can't believe there's no retrospective way to certify.

There is, but it would cost a significant amount of money far out of proportion to the cost of the actual work.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Yes, I meant elv as did Welshjeff1000.

So why did you say "low voltage" when there's a specific, and significant, difference between that and extra-low-voltage in the way it is treated by the Building Regulations relevant to the OP's situation?

CE not known here

WTF?

Let me get this straight - you are giving people advice on wiring and building regulations, but you use incorrect and misleading terms, you don't know what the regulations say, and you wouldn't understand them even if you did.

GO

AWAY.

 

[acmedone]

CE not known here

WTF?

Perhaps you expect me to go to the shop and go through the packaging for this product to find out with absolute certainty? Knowing this forum, had I not said "not known" I knew you or one of your buddies would definitely have popped up with some fatuous remark. I thought I had it covered. Amazing.

Let me get this straight - you are giving people advice on wiring and building regulations,

You are free to quote back (with context) anything I have written that can be construed to be advice about regulations.

but you use incorrect and misleading terms, you don't know what the regulations say. GO AWAY.

If this forum is supposed to be limited to discussion between registered electricians the mods should close it.

Otherwise accept that information is not always offered in a form that is immediately clear and useful and that dialogue is often required for clarification. If you informed rather than made a meal out of every trivial error, everyone would be much better off.

 

[Welshjeff1000]

There is absolutely no excuse for someone doing building work not knowing about the Building Regulations. I wonder what else you and the people you have spoken to have done which was illegal.


LOL, no more squabbling please

The items are on the shelf in B&Q with no markings on the packet or shelf indicating such. I asked the chap in the store the difference between LEDs, mains wired spots and transformer wired spots as i'm replacing my lights and he happily advised me with no mention of regs. B&Q = DIY hence i just got on with it!

I'll get a quote for retrospective certificate for info of forum readers.

 

[EFLImpudence]

I'll get a quote for retrospective certificate for info of forum readers.

Why?

 

[welshjeff]

Because I can't believe it's that expensive for an electrician to check my work and sign it off - an hours labour?

Certified means that I know that when I sell in the future it won't be a hurdle to overcome.

... Or it is ridiculously expensive and I'll chalk it up to experience. Hopefully I can get a ball park quote by phone. I'm not telling him / her where I live in case they rat me out to the council !!

 

[EFLImpudence]

Because I can't believe it's that expensive for an electrician to check my work and sign it off - an hours labour?

What about the fact that it's not allowed.

You did the work. You have to certify it.

How does anyone else know what you have hidden away - wires twisted together, wrapped in sellotape and buried in polyfilla.

Certified means that I know that when I sell in the future it won't be a hurdle to overcome.

You may certify it.

Forum electricians - rubbish.
B&Q man - brilliant, said what I wanted to hear.

... Or it is ridiculously expensive and I'll chalk it up to experience. Hopefully I can get a ball park quote by phone. I'm not telling him / her where I live in case they rat me out to the council !!

Anyone would think you had something to hide.

This is the law, not pedantry from us.

 

[SimonH2]

... see no point now in telling anyone as there's nothing that can be done. Will disclose when I sell, which as I've only just moved in won't be for a while.

And by then, you may have changed your mind and had the lights changed again - in which case, this time round you'll know the regs need you to either use a member of a registration scheme, or notify to LABC before starting work. And as the current work will have been removed, it becomes irrelevant.

Spoke to a few people today who have done similar renovations and were as surprised as I was re notifiable.

Yes, I suspect that an awful lot of people will get a bit of a surprise when they answer yes to the "has any electrical work been done since ..." on the buyers questionaire while selling their house - and then get asked "where's the certificates ?"