bathroom installation bodged

[WalksWithTurkeys]

I have some picture here of my bathroom being refitted:

He had the room skimmed, but left the old coving in place. Then he tiled to the ceiling in the bath area, until the tiles rested on the edge of the coving.

General comments on the workmanship please. Also note that the shower is at the opposite end of the bath to taps. And the cut out in the tiles for the left hand pipe is bodged. He cut out two halves, but they do not meet, the mismatch being 1cm.

Could you please give your criticisms in terms a lay person can understand since I am not a tiler, or bathroom fitter.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Could you please give your criticisms in terms a lay person can understand since I am not a tiler, or bathroom fitter.

Nor I, so I can only use lay terms to answer your question.

General comments on the workmanship please.

It's sh*te.

 

[tpt]

the coving issue - thats very rough. i wouldnt be happy on a lot of levels with that, and if they have plastered it all then they should have taken it off.

something is running out of plumb (either the walls or the tile) as the tiles have been built out at the top - nothing too wrong with that, but with an exposed edge like you have it looks pants. they would be better off following the walls.

Trims should be on the front edges unless you have agreed not to.

The split tile near the pipe - it depends what kind of shower you have. will it be covered?

the rest of the tiling doesnt look too bad from the piccies although i'm always wary when i see a full tile off the bath.

The dark adhesive - looks like they have used a cement based adhesive. do you know if they primed the walls first?

 

[Richard C]

You don’t say specifically what your unhappy with; difficult to comment from photos but from the first couple the overall layout & spacing doesn’t look too bad; I’ve certainly seen a lot worse! I would never have left the coving in place, it doesn’t look right & he’s kicked the tiles out at the top, presumably to cover the coving lip; presumable it’s not going to be fully tiled beyond the bath area which won’t look good.

Why did he have the room skimmed? What is the wall plasterboard or plastered block work? Plastering re-plastering an area that’s going to be tiled is generally not a good idea, it’s not usually necessary & restricts tile weight to 20 kg/sqm including 4 kg/sqm for adhesive & grout so if your tiles weigh in more than 18 kg/sqm you could be in trouble. Those tiles look to be around 500 x 250mm which is getting fairly large & if they are over 8mm thick you’re probably over that limit. Depending on what the walls are made of, above & around the bath area should possibly have been tanked.

Looking at the close up’s I can see what may be a powder cement adhesive which should always be used on tiles much larger than around 250mm or they take an age to set & sometimes won’t set at all. On the left hand side I can see what looks like white adhesive behind the tiles; do you know what it is, was it tub ready mix? It’s also rather messy & appears to be all over the face of the tiles which can be difficult to remove once set; the tile pegs are also still in place which may also now be difficult to remove. It’s usual to leave a 2mm gap between the bath & bottom edge of the tiles for a silicone bead; might be the photo but it doesn’t look like there is any gap.

No tile trim been used &, personally, I don’t like it anyway but the tile line must be straight or the edge won’t look good; I usually bevel external corners unless told to do otherwise. How is the window reveal to be finished or is that it?

I think I understand what you’re saying about the way he’s done the tiles around the pipes but I can’t see it from the current photos. Presumably it’s going to be a surface mounted mixer valve & pipe work? The shower fitted at the slopped end of the bath is going to be difficult to use unless you have a central ceiling mounted shower head. Don’t know what type of shower or screen you’re having but I always advise a rain type shower head mounted directly overhead unless you have a wrap around screen. A shower over a bath (particularly if it’s pumped) with an angled shower head will turn the rest of the bathroom into a wet room; depending on what type of floor you have it could cause problems in the long term. The Bath feet look rather flimsy; I think I’d go for some additional supports. Bath waste doesn’t appear to be connected to anything, where is the soil stack?

Not sure about those light fittings I can just see, are they suitably IP rated? The one over the bath especially should be IP44 minimum, IP65 if the ceiling is less than 225cm.

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

Thanks for the replies.

The walls are solid, concrete or breeze block, very hard. The plastering was done as when he removed existing tiles over all walls, plaster came off. Some of the wall was to be painted.

I think the tiling to the ceiling is shiite, and as a result I asked them to leave. I am angry that they had it replastered and did not remove the coving. They keep telling me they simply did what I asked them to do.

The shower is one with a chromed brass valve, and two pipes that fit onto the wall, with two 5cm diameter end pieces. The damaged tile would show. It is an Aqualisa, this one I think:

http://www.aqualisa.co.uk/Trade/our...justable-height-head-high-pressure/?area=3582

 

[Richard C]

The plastering was done as when he removed existing tiles over all walls, plaster came off. Some of the wall was to be painted.

That’s not unusual & no problem with skimming the areas to be painted but, apart from the weight issue, another problem with tiling over new plaster is that it needs to dry out before tiling over (10-14 days for a skim up to 4 weeks for base & skim) or you could get problems with trapped moisture which may affect adhesion. If you need to level/fill damage prior to tiling its best you use powder adhesive or a quickset render, then you don’t have to wait.

I think the tiling to the ceiling is s****, and as a result I asked them to leave. I am angry that they had it replastered and did not remove the coving. They keep telling me they simply did what I asked them to do.

I wouldn’t disagree with you there but I’ve no idea what you told them to do, did they not ask how you wanted the tiles to meet the coving?

The shower is one with a chromed brass valve, and two pipes that fit onto the wall, with two 5cm diameter end pieces. The damaged tile would show. It is an Aqualisa, this one I think:

http://www.aqualisa.co.uk/Trade/our...justable-height-head-high-pressure/?area=3582

Is it to be pumped? If not, do you have sufficient head for a gravity shower; performance can be very disappointing & some won’t work at all!

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

The plastering was done as when he removed existing tiles over all walls, plaster came off. Some of the wall was to be painted.

That’s not unusual & no problem with skimming the areas to be painted but, apart from the weight issue, another problem with tiling over new plaster is that it needs to dry out before tiling over (10-14 days for a skim up to 4 weeks for base & skim) or you could get problems with trapped moisture which may affect adhesion. If you need to level/fill damage prior to tiling its best you use powder adhesive or a quickset render, then you don’t have to wait.

I think the tiling to the ceiling is s****, and as a result I asked them to leave. I am angry that they had it replastered and did not remove the coving. They keep telling me they simply did what I asked them to do.

I wouldn’t disagree with you there but I’ve no idea what you told them to do, did they not ask how you wanted the tiles to meet the coving?

The shower is one with a chromed brass valve, and two pipes that fit onto the wall, with two 5cm diameter end pieces. The damaged tile would show. It is an Aqualisa, this one I think:

http://www.aqualisa.co.uk/Trade/our...justable-height-head-high-pressure/?area=3582

Is it to be pumped? If not, do you have sufficient head for a gravity shower; performance can be very disappointing & some won’t work at all!

Thanks. They were employed to do a full bathroom refit to a professional standard, or so I assumed. There was no mention of how the tiling to the ceiling would be done. I assumed professionals do a neat job, and I do not need to tell them what to do. What they have done looks like, and is, a bodge, that would shame any DIY enthusiast. They told me on monday it would need plastering, so I said okay, I was surprised they left the old coving in place, as removing it is easy, and then two days later they tiled, and I saw the mess in the photos. As I say, I am not a bathroom fitter, so I have to reply on the company leading me through the process. The kitchen people, Optiplan, did that, and the result is A1.

The boiler is a combi, WB 30CDI, and the shower should work fine with it.

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

Regarding plaster, they plastered on wednesday, tiled on friday, and I have emails to prove that. Some people have said that is not enough drying time. I have no idea. I left the kitchen 1 week before painting, after it was plastered.

 

[Richard C]

Don’t know what you’ve paid so far & I certainly wouldn't advise you pay any more at the present time but you need to be wary of withholding money for work done without giving them the chance to rectify specific things your not happy with; if the shrit hits the fan, it all hinges around what is considered reasonable. It’s certainly not to my standards along with some of the other things I mentioned but I’ve seen far worse. I would have taken you through the things I’ve mentioned & definitely said take down the coving but it, the “kicked out” tiles at the top & the bodge around the shower valve pipes can be put right without too many problems.

Two days plaster drying isn’t long enough; you should leave a new skim a minimum of 10 days & preferably 14 days before tiling or painting or you can get problems with trapped in residual moisture.

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

I have paid quite a few thousand i.e. a bit more than half. I was worried that the law says they must be given a chance to put right. The problem is that what I have seen looks like a bodge by someone who does not care, and I am not prepared to risk them carrying on. The total price was about £5K including furniture. When I spoke to them, they kept saying they did what I asked them to do. They have had more than enough payment for what they have done, and I would like to get back a substantial amount, but it does not look like I will.

The problem with putting right is that a substantial number of tiles will need to be removed to get the bath out. And it might have damage on what is currently the unseen side. Because they have not removed the old coving, it will always be tiled to old coving. A bit naff but passable. They also proposed to not use edging on tiles, but grout smoothed off. That strikes me as a bodge consistent with saving money i.e. not buying edging. And I am concerned about safety having seen the obvious poor work.

 

[Richard C]

The problem with putting right is that a substantial number of tiles will need to be removed to get the bath out. And it might have damage on what is currently the unseen side.

Sorry but why do you need to remove the tiles to remove the bath? Why do you want to remove the bath? Even so & if there is no gap between the tiles & the bath, you can adjust the bath feet down away from the tiles in order to remove it.

Because they have not removed the old coving, it will always be tiled to old coving. A bit naff but passable.

That’s the bit I’d be most upset about which cannot easily be disguised but it could be rectified. It would involve removing the tiles nearest the ceiling but they have been cut to fit, is the distance between the last full tile & the ceiling (with the coving removed) smaller or greater than a full tile?

They also proposed to not use edging on tiles, but grout smoothed off. That strikes me as a bodge consistent with saving money i.e. not buying edging.

Well now tile edging can be a personal thing & I wouldn’t say not fitting it is a bodge & at around a couple of quid or so a length, they aint going to save much cash by not fitting it. But you should have been given the option &, as can be seen in your pics, if the tile edge isn’t straight, it’ll look awful.

As I said previously, I personally don’t like tile trim much especially the colored plastic stuff; I think it looks cheap & nasty & often the wrong size is used which makes it look 10x worse. I don’t fit it unless I’m told but will always give the option & sometimes customers want a tile edge trim. I prefer to either leave it natural (on glazed edge tiles) or paint it wall colour; I honestly think it looks better than plastic trim. External edges I bevel cut the tiles, again, unless I’m told to fit trim, it takes more time but I think it looks far better IMO; but it’s a personal thing.

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

The tiles either side prevent the bath being removed as they block it in. It is a very tight fit. There is a lot of sealer around the ends and back, so that would need to be removed.

The room was skimmed wednesday, tiled friday. Is that an issue and if so why? Also I am told you half fill the bath before tiling. On friday at 5:30pm I saw no water in the bath.

Thanks for your comments!

 

[Richard C]

The tiles either side prevent the bath being removed as they block it in.

Ah yes well that’s a good point ; you would have to remove one or more the tiles on the left; but why do you want to remove the bath, are you thinking of turning it around?

It is a very tight fit. There is a lot of sealer around the ends and back, so that would need to be removed.

So have they stuck the bath to the wall then?

The room was skimmed wednesday, tiled friday. Is that an issue and if so why?

The wall might look dry next day (light pink) but the plaster will still have a fairly high residual moisture content which can cause problems with initial adhesion & also long term adhesion as the moisture tries to escape; trapped moisture can also cause the new plaster skim to “blow” off the original finish after a while; if that happens it will take your tiles with it. It’s been good drying weather recently but just 1½ days for plaster to dry out is optimistic to put it mildly; the manufacturere of the adhesive I use actually stipulates 4 weeks but I only consider this necessary if it's a full base coat & skim (around 14-16mm thick) rather than the usual 3/4mm finish re-skim. I’m also a plasterer but because of the time & weight restrictions it presents rarely use Gypsum plaster where I’m going to tile.

As previously stated, they should have used cement powder adhesive for tiles that size & if they did, I hope they acrylic primed the new plaster. If they didn’t there is a risk of reaction between the cement in the adhesive & the gypsum in the plaster which, again can lead to premature tile failure.

Also I am told you half fill the bath before tiling.

Filling the bath before tiling is a new one on me, I can’t see it achieves anything unless the have stuck the bath to the wall with silicone! I tile down to within 2mm of the top of the bath & once the tiles are grouted (but not next to the bath) I completely fill the bath with water & apply a bead of quality sanitary silicone around the bath. I do this in two stages; first with the nozzle uncut to force silicone into the gap between the bottom of the tile & the top of the bath, cut the nozzle to the required bead size & then apply another silicon bead to give a neat silicone seal between the bottom edge of the tiles & the top of the bath. Leave the bath full until next day to ensure the silicone is fully cured.

 

[WalksWithTurkeys]

Hello Richard

Thank you for the reply. The taps and shower are at opposite ends. I asked them to reverse the bath with respect to the old one so I could have the shower opposite the window. Instead they installed the bath the same way as the old one, and put the shower on the opposite end. That makes it hard to stand under the shower and reach the controls (strong slope in bath). I suspect this was laziness as it needed less changes to pipes.

They applied a very large amount of sealer around the bath between it and the walls. Then tiled very close to the bath. I have been told they should have half filled the bath before applying sealer. Not that I know.

 

[Richard C]

I asked them to reverse the bath with respect to the old one so I could have the shower opposite the window. Instead they installed the bath the same way as the old one, and put the shower on the opposite end. That makes it hard to stand under the shower and reach the controls (strong slope in bath). I suspect this was laziness as it needed less changes to pipes.

Where is you soil stack & in what direction do your joists run? They may not have done what you asked because it is either not practical; will involve a lot of work; or they haven’t got a clue about drainage. But, again, they should have discussed the options with you; for sure a shower ain’t gonna be easy to use at the sloped end of the bath & there is no way any standard bath side screen will keep shower water inside the bath if your standing in the centre of it pointing the shower head at you rather than downwards over you; wet room syndrome again.

They applied a very large amount of sealer around the bath between it and the walls. Then tiled very close to the bath.

I know some do it but I would never stick a bath or shower tray to the wall with silicone sealer; depending on what type of silicone they used, it wont stick well anyway & will just become a breading ground for nasties. To me it shows a serious lack of understanding & faith in what they are doing regarding tiling & applying a good surface silicone seal between the tiles & the bath. Done correctly it will last many, many years & only need replacing due to discolouration or mould growth - it happens eventually regardless of silicone quality.

I have been told they should have half filled the bath before applying sealer. Not that I know.

Sealer yes but not tiling & I always fill the bath.