Baxi Platinum 24

[simond]

I'm afraid you must bite the bullet, AliW, and get it Powerflushed pronto.

Like many other heating specialists on this forum, we are regularly losing quotes where another installer has just tipped some gear in the system and told the customer that it will clean it up.

The customer sees some dirty water coming out and assumes all is well. If you have significanrt corrosion in your system all will not be well, and the black stuff you have in your HW heat exchanger is testament to this.

You have now unwittingly filled a new boiler with sludge which can never be totally eradicated. Bits are retained in the primary, DHW heat exchangers and the diverter valve.

A Powerflush machine is the only safeguard. If your installer hasn't got one, and is using existing rads and pipework, then he's a chancer.

The moral of this story is if a quote is £300-400 less than everyone elses for a replacement boiler, there's usually a good reason.

 

[chrishutt]

Can the same effect be achieved by doing a couple/three system cleans and drain downs ourselves?

I would argue that you might achieve comparale results to power flushing with mains flushing combined with chemical treatment. Neither will get a system 100% clean, so why pay so much more for power flushing? However the mains flushing would need to be carried out in a thorough way, as with power flushing. Either way it takes time to get good results.

 

[Baxmax]

Why dont you go and buy some new radiators and pipe and install them,or maybe that would have been the way forward from the start.I am always amazed how "HEATEAM"/Baxi will call to an appliance and try to rectify numerous times without investigating and then if need be condeming the installation for causing a fault on a boiler.

 

[Agile]

I agree with you AliW that you should not have to pay another £300 to get it power flushed.

The problem is with your installer. I suspect like the others here that he did the install for you on the cheap! We would have charged £720 plus the cost of the boiler and this includes whatever system clean is necessary.

If you only paid him £300 then its a little harsh when you ask him to come and power flush the system properly but thats what he is legally required to do as part of fitting a boiler. Take him to the County Court to claim back the cost of properly power flushing, thats £500 with BG.

Tony

 

[ChrisR]

I wouldn't bother taking him to court.
Baxi's instructions are contradictory.
He can say he flushed it when you weren't looking.

We see a lot of blocked secondary heat exchangers in systems which have been powerflushed, though obviously the quality of the treatment varies. Even Fernox only claim "up to 80%" removal of sludge, so it depends how much there was.

If a system's really bad, you're left with a lot of grot. Other methods of removal such as flushing the rads manually with a mains hose in the garden, and mechanical/magnetic filtration on the return pipe, do help.

My personal view is that if the system's really old/dirty, changing all the radiators can make a lot of sense.

 

[doitall]

If the rads are on there last legs, there's no way I would powerflush the system.

Fit a magnaclean for a 100 notes.

Personally I blame the manufacturers for designing the rubbish, and Baxi are one of the worst.

And Powerflushing is NOT a legal requirement when fitting a boiler.

 

[maka2k2]

when our company fit a new boiler we flush with mains water, we remove each radiator and flush it in the garden turning it side to side to remove the dirt and rubbish, we then connect the flow and return and blast it through with water and then we use x100 ingibitor, works a treat we dont ever get any problems, we get called out to many other boilers where the heat exchanger is at fault, and some of the customers say the plumbers were only there a day for a full install.

if the plate to plate is blocked we normally remove it and clean it with chemicals, works every time

 

[Agile]

When a boiler is installed the system should be cleaned in accordance with the British Standard BS 7593 which covers cleaning the system properly.

In addition, under the Sale of Goods Acts, the work should be of merchantable quality. In the case of a boiler installation that work should have been done properly in accordance with the recognised standards and good workmanship.

Therefore I would conclude that your installer has legally failed on two separate counts!

His only defence would be if he had specifically agreed with you that he was going to do a bad job on the cheap.

I would love to know how much he charged for this inadequate job?

Tony Glazier

 

[AliW]

You guys are brilliant in coming back to me with your replies - again very much appreciated. Can I just ask, are you all Corgi?

We paid £2300 - that was for the new boiler, 2 new rads and alterations to pipework, a new drain off point, disconnection of a gas point in the kitchen, a new room stat, removal of a storage tank, removal of a back boiler - also note the boiler is fitted in a cupboard and a flue had to be created which vents out through the roof (its a bungalow), system clean and filling with inhibitor. How does this rate on pricing front?

I have been back to Baxi Heateam today and they don't believe that the sludge is the cause of the ongoing heating problem and still believe this to be an electrical or software problem which they are trying to find a fix for!! So I may still be looking for them to refund the cost of the boiler and the cost of having a new one fitted. How much should I expect to pay for installing a different make of boiler - obviously pipework and flue would also have to be changed - around £800????

Also if I do have to go down the road of a new condensing combi do you have any recommendations of what make/model to go for (bungalow, 1 bathroom, 8 rads)?? Cheek I know!!!!

 

[ChrisR]

I used to do software now I do boilers. In my highly edumificated opinion, software does not cause black stuff in boilers.

But we must be prepared to learn, all the time.

Baxi obviously know best, but if our haphazard guesses are right, you could have a shiny new boiler (much more than £800) and be freeee of the problem, for absolutely months.

£2300 for what they should have done, would be OK.

 

[Agile]

I still think its the sludge.

Perhaps it will not be an option for them to refund the cost of your boiler. They may replace it and send somebody to do it for you.

I would say that to compensate you for all the trouble you should ask for a better quality boiler like a Vaillant or Viessmann to be fitted. About £980 plus £450 to fit. Doubt that they will agree though but you have got them is a difficult position.

I would love to have your boiler to test and clean and I am sure there is nothing wrong with it apart from the dirt.

Try to pressurise Baxi into sorting it out quickly for you. Its a standard boiler and there is nothing special about its installation in your home. The boiler is a piece of machinery and it does not know where it is installed.

We are CORGI registered, dont know about some of the others though!

Tony Glazier

P.S. Dont talk too loudly near the boiler! They have a built in microphone and using an ADC ( analogue/digital converter ) they save and process what you have been saying during the boiler off time when the CPU is only required to monitor the frost protection. They have a voice recognition system with preprogrammed derogative words and if any are detected then the boiler will only operate with out of tolerance parameters.

 

[AliW]

Brilliant last PS comment Agile - had me in fits of giggles!!!!

Baxi have said they'll replace full cost of boiler if they cannot solve the ongoing problem with the boiler switching off when in CH mode by 15th Sept. I want full cost of boiler plus full cost of fitting another one!

Shame you don't come from Portsmouth area!!!!!!

 

[AliW]

Baxi have been in touch today with the ongoing boiler situation. They are still awaiting a new printed circuit board for the baxi platinum - they hope to have this soon. My thought is, for a boiler they say there isn't a problem with they are going to a lot of trouble so this makes me think there is a design fault with the boiler afterall and this is not just a handful of cases.

They are now offering to fit a new Baxi 105HE, a powerflush and a 5 yr warranty. This is a B rated boiler as opposed to the Platinum's A rating but hopefully this isn't a problem??

Also the heat exchanger is tinned copper (?) as opposed to the Platinum's stainless steel but hopefully that isn't a problem either????

Any views you have on the 105HE as to quality, reliability, heat exchanger and B rating would be most appreciated.

 

[Agile]

There is little difference in the efficiency between the two boilers.

The 105 HE is a fairly well tried and tested boiler which is quite popular with some installers.

I think that their offer is a very generous one as the system was not properly power flushed and they are including a proper power flush.

I would love to get my hands on your old boiler to clean it and prove that the only problem is dirt!

Tony

 

[AliW]

Thanks for that Tony. Hopefully we can now get this resolved and put an end to 5 months of problems!!