Best oil based gloss setup?

[CluelessDIYer1]

For those with good memories - yes i did a best water based gloss thread. You'll probably guess that it didn't work out.

I remember one comment being something like - "Johnstones Aqua is the best of a bad bunch". I bought it, it looked great, however it just marks up way way too easily. It's been on 6-8 weeks at a guess & it's still marking. Just putting keys on it marks it (& i mean putting, not throwing). My wedding ring (tungsten) doesn't but my wifes wedding ring (palladium) does, badly. Try this test on an oil glossed windowledge & none of it marks it at all.

So we have the dilemma:
* water based gloss but carry a wet cloth around so we can scrub away at the marks all the time (joy).
* satinwood - i remember trying to apply this on another piece. Horror. Not only that, i'm not totally keen on the flat matt look of it.
* standard oil based gloss - but it'll cream after a while. From asking the question it doesn't actually YELLOW. I'm fine with a bit of off white.


So we're thinking oil based gloss. The house gets a ton of light anyway which i read can help.

Question - what's the best oil based gloss? I've read about Dulux, Crown, paints i've never heard of such as Leyland & Sikkens & god knows what else.
Once we've established the best gloss, what primer/undercoat would you use? I did a bit of searching & there's so much choice.[/b]

 

[joe-90]

This is user error. It's the coat underneath that hasn't dried before the top coat was put on.

Don't know why anyone would want gloss these days. Looks like an 80s Wickes showroom.

 

[CluelessDIYer1]

This is user error. It's the coat underneath that hasn't dried before the top coat was put on.

Hmm interesting (& could save us a bit of money). Thanks.

I'm not being awkward or anything here when i ask - what is your definition of "dried"?

When i applied the gloss the undercoat had been left for at least 24 hours. It was certainly dry to the touch.

So to what degree does it need to be dry enough for the top coat to go on? I know you can't tell me that i need to leave it for 37 hours, 15 minutes & 20 seconds, i don't mean that, but what am i looking for beyond touch dry?

Don't know why anyone would want gloss these days. Looks like an 80s Wickes showroom.

Like anything - personal preference.

I don't know whether it's nonsense that people speak but people say it offers 'better protection' too - more durable.

Why, what do you use / what is used 'these days'? Satinwood? For me it just looks way too flat.

 

[tidyredline]

Take a look at the Sikkens Gloss range.

Sikkens AZ Gloss & Sikkens XD Gloss

The XD gives the most impressive finish I have ever seen from a gloss.

http://sikkens.trade-decorating.co.uk/products/sikkens_rubbol_xd_gloss.jsp

You can use the Sikkens Rubbol primer underneath.

 

[CluelessDIYer1]

Thanks.

Where do Sikkens stand in the grand scheme of things then?

I dare say most DIYers think Dulux is 'the' brand to go to. I certainly did before i started coming to online forums.
From reading online though they seem to be like what Volkswagen are to the car world - trading off the name & how they were probably superior years ago, but in actual fact these days just overpriced & can get the same or better for cheaper elsewhere.

I'd never even heard of Sikkens or Leyland. The only brands i'd heard of were obviously Dulux, but then Crown & Johnstones.

 

[joe-90]

Sikkens is number one.

 

[CluelessDIYer1]

Just had a look at that Sikkens XD - it says not for use indoors, so that'd be no good to me.

If 24 hours is no good going from undercoat>top coat then how long would you say to leave it for it to dry & avoid these marks?


& out of interest, what do you guys use when doing door frames/stairs/skirting? Is satinwood all the rage now or do you use something else?

 

[CluelessDIYer1]

Had a chat with the boss (wife) & it's decided that whiteness is probably going to be preferred over a glossy look.

As you can see, we're undecided.

We tried w/b gloss - no go
If we decide oil based gloss - Sikkens on the back of the recommendation here.

It's looking like after tonight we'll go satinwood as we both agree the white look is preferred over a gloss shine.

I have some Crown non drip satinwood but to be honest i found it a nightmare to work with. The Aqua gloss i used was much much easier with it being thinner.

So we'll be on the lookout for some satinwood.

Does this bring us forward slightly into the 90s joe?

 

[blightymam]

Waterbased undercoat can be painted after 4-6 hours, not user error..

We use Dulux trade primer & undercoat, both for oil-based paints. We have used recently (a year ago) the Dulux oil based satinwood & gloss (the gloss I bought in error so we just used it in the bedroom!). Both the satinwood and the gloss have yellowed, the gloss being the worst - something I since learned happens, esp gloss now & it made the news.

The reason why we used Dulux trade is because oil-based is very hard to come by when in the normal range of DIY shops, and ordering online can be a bit of a pain. I loathe, loathe, loathe the water based paint. They are awful, they do not work, there is nothing about them that is good. Sorry, I'd rather be out of date in my fashion than to have to decorate everything when something dents that paint or it peels off!!! Even a chap in B&Q said they'd had many a customer who had less than good results with water-based paint.

Oil based is so much more hard wearing. Because of the yellowing, I have bought a pot of johnstons satinwood to paint our new bedroom when ready in a couple of weeks - this will be used on new, untreated architrave & skirting boards. I'd read it was slightly better on the yellowing, fingers crossed!
Good luck to you.

 

[tidyredline]

Thanks.

Where do Sikkens stand in the grand scheme of things then?

I dare say most DIYers think Dulux is 'the' brand to go to. I certainly did before i started coming to online forums.
From reading online though they seem to be like what Volkswagen are to the car world - trading off the name & how they were probably superior years ago, but in actual fact these days just overpriced & can get the same or better for cheaper elsewhere.

I'd never even heard of Sikkens or Leyland. The only brands i'd heard of were obviously Dulux, but then Crown & Johnstones.

Sikkens is an ICI product, but is still relatively unknown amongst retailers and even the the trade to some extent.

Its a fantastic product that has never let me down.

Also take alook at the new BEDEC AQUA range, its water based, however some of the feedback I have been receiving is very reassuring.

 

[dcdec]

Sikkens BL Satura is the best option if you want a non yellowing satin finish.
The sikkens rubbol oil based gloss is a superb finish, the XD is exterior only. The aqua is the best of a bad bunch, i've used plenty and a good finish is achievable with good prep, practice and good brushes, its challenging for diyers though. You really have to decide if you want to compromise the finish for a stay white formula, or get a good OB finish and have far shorter intervals between re-decoration.
I believe further regs are due soon, limiting VOC's even more so i would suggest oil heads stock up with the bad stuff before it becomes very bad stuff.

 

[CluelessDIYer1]

I loathe, loathe, loathe the water based paint. They are awful, they do not work, there is nothing about them that is good.

Interesting.

In our house the previous owner did the windowledge in oil based gloss. We can tell this as there's a part used tin in the shed. Smack this a few times & it doesn't mark at all & that's with keys, screwdriver etc. It also hasn't yellowed but then it's on the side that gets a stack of light.

They also painted the bathroom door frame in satin. Now i can't say for sure whether it's oil based satin or water based satin (is there a way you can tell?) but it doesn't mark at all. I was smacking it with a screwdriver to test how durable it was. I don't mean the end but just giving it a mini-beating & nothing, no marks. I was quite impressed.

IF this was water based then i think it was very very good - durable AND white.

But that IF is the million dollar question. I saw no tins of satin in the shed so it could be either for all i know. It's not creamy & is at the rear of the house so i'm thinking perhaps water based, but then for all i know they could have been sticklers for oil based paints.

It'd be helpful if i could get a little tester of water based satin to see if it marks as easy as the water based gloss does.

Sikkens BL Satura is the best option if you want a non yellowing satin finish.

I take from this that you have good experience of that then? I was looking at that last night to be honest when i was looking up decent satin w/b paints.

So then you know what question is coming next: do you have any idea how easily this marks up? Or chips? Obviously it wont be as durable as oil based, but so long as i can put my keys on it without it marking etc. I put a small light clock on the piece i'd w/b glossed & it marked it. I can't have that.

I believe further regs are due soon, limiting VOC's even more so i would suggest oil heads stock up with the bad stuff before it becomes very bad stuff.

Interesting & thanks for the nod. I'm assuming you know no more than what you just said - "due soon"?

 

[blightymam]

I believe further regs are due soon, limiting VOC's even more so i would suggest oil heads stock up with the bad stuff before it becomes very bad stuff.

Thanks from me too - good to know!

They also painted the bathroom door frame in satin. Now i can't say for sure whether it's oil based satin or water based satin (is there a way you can tell?) but it doesn't mark at all. I was smacking it with a screwdriver to test how durable it was. I don't mean the end but just giving it a mini-beating & nothing, no marks. I was quite impressed.

IF this was water based then i think it was very very good - durable AND white.

But that IF is the million dollar question. I saw no tins of satin in the shed so it could be either for all i know. It's not creamy & is at the rear of the house so i'm thinking perhaps water based, but then for all i know they could have been sticklers for oil based paints.

Well, not all gloss or satinwood did turn yellow, dulux especially it's a fairly recent thing due to regs & changed formulas. Well - it would discolour eventually, but just not as quick as it does now, like 6 months! Could be an old paint, better brand or one the owner before you stored and used? Paint that hasn't yellowed much doesn't mean that it's always water-based.

Thing I have found with water based is that it seems slightly rubbery and as you've found, it dents very easily. I also find that it shows brushmarks, so painting it is a real pain. Also, very unforgiving if it hasn't been put on wood 110% prepared correctly as it may peel right off with a knock or two. Oil based is very hard wearing - it will chip if been knocked too tho, but takes more of a whack!

 

[CluelessDIYer1]

Well, not all gloss or satinwood did turn yellow, dulux especially it's a fairly recent thing due to regs & changed formulas. Well - it would discolour eventually, but just not as quick as it does now, like 6 months! Could be an old paint, better brand or one the owner before you stored and used? Paint that hasn't yellowed much doesn't mean that it's always water-based.

Thing I have found with water based is that it seems slightly rubbery and as you've found, it dents very easily. I also find that it shows brushmarks, so painting it is a real pain. Also, very unforgiving if it hasn't been put on wood 110% prepared correctly as it may peel right off with a knock or two. Oil based is very hard wearing - it will chip if been knocked too tho, but takes more of a whack!

I must say that the water based gloss i've put on doesn't 'dent' at all. I've been giving it a fair old whack but it certainly hasn't dented. It does however mark (i'll post photos at the end).

I agree with the brush marks, but then i don't think what i've done looks terrible to me. It will to a pro but i'm happy with it. I'd be happy to leave it if it just didn't mark this easily.

Johnstones want me to send them the photos. I doubt i'll get a free paint voucher or anything.

Wife's ring moved across the surface:


My car key lightly moved across the surface:


Wife's ring at the top, but to the left you'll see a circle. That's the push button of my car keyfob - so a smooth surface:



I'd show you where i was literally bashing it with my ring but then - it hasn't marked. It has to totally be a type of metal thing where tungsten doesn't mark it but pretty much anything else does.



Slightly off topic, my actual wedding ring is also palladium, but it marks easily & in my line of work that is no good, so we bought a tungsten one as it was very hard wearing. I'm lifting building materials all day long, rough surfaces. The ring just doesn't scratch & is as shiny as day 1. It's fantastic. There's something about it that just stops it marking this paint.






EDIT: It seems Sikkens don't do an oil based satin look. I had a look & their satin is water based. They do do an oil based satin but it states EXterior.

While i've got this thread running i may as well ask then since i've asked for damn near every other option - a decent OIL based SATIN?


From what i've read, oil will yellow however oil-gloss will yellow more/quicker than oil-satin. I don't want to be worrying about the above photos happening all the time so may be forced to go oil based.

So then, satin? The Dulux trade stuff perhaps? Or overpriced tosh?
Or does it really not matter that the Sikkens says for exterior use & it'll actually be fine for what we're using it for indoors?

 

[joe-90]

Forget oil based. It's history.

And stop wiping your wife's ring across the wall.