Best oil based gloss setup?

[opps]

Oh dear, there's one i didn't think of...

We were all set for a totally water based system right from primer>top coat.

Now we're going to certainly go oil based i'm wondering if this presents a problem. I have no issue buying in new primer for the job. Thing is the door frames are terribly knotted. I did buy that Zinsser Bullseye i think it is, or Zinsser 123, whatever it's called that is for knots. It's shellac or something to that effect. Hopefully you know what i'm on about. If not then i can post back tomorrow night once i've been to the house & checked what the tin is.


Anyway, IIRC this is water based. Is this going to be ok to put on the wood & then oil based primer/undercoat/top coat on top? Obviously i'll be sanding it down once it's on. 180 grit i think is the finest i have. 80, 120 & 180.

Just wondered if it'd still be ok to use underneath oil based. Hope so.

Do not try to use Zinsser BIN as an undercoat

It dries too quickly. You will not be able to get a decent finish. Believe me, I discovered the hard way.

As an experiment I painted a 5 metre, 2 metre tall MDF bookcase years ago using BIN. Normally I would have used WB primer but I want to try something that was non grain raising. It was slower to apply (I used rollers and brushes), cost loads more and I had to wear a respirator.

Sanding time using WB would have been 2 days, the BIN took 3.5 days to sand flat. I even resorted to using Vodka to thin the paint which helped a little (denatured alcohol would have been better, but I didn't have any).

BIN is a great product but it is not easy to work with.
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[opps]

Well this problem has been well & truly sorted tonight....

As i've said - the marking on the Johnstones Aqua w/b gloss which is supposed to be the best of its type.

Did i say i was hitting the satin on the door frame with a screwdriver? I meant gloss, which was oil based & didn't leave a mark.

The satin on the door frame turns out to be water based. Run the ring over it, keys over it, even ever so softly & it marks. Mash my ring on it - nothing.
Found a bit my wife had done in water base non drip satin - same problem.


So it seems water based paints may not yellow, but they mark very very easily (from metal - depending on metal type). Rub other things on there (behave!) and it doesn't mark. So it's certain metals that are the problem.



SO............ oil based paint it is then. Now to decide whether gloss or satin. Probably satin as i've read it holds out a bit better than gloss with the yellowing but inevitably will turn.

Every white WB lower sheen finish that I have tried marks with ferrous materials, even the £80 per 4.5L stuff. I haven't tried white WB gloss though.

 

[CluelessDIYer1]

Do not try to use Zinsser BIN as an undercoat

It dries too quickly. You will not be able to get a decent finish. Believe me, I discovered the hard way.

That'd be an annoying one if correct since it cost a bit.

Question: Is it ok to use to treat the knots but to then put primer/undercoat & then top coat on afterwards?

 

[CluelessDIYer1]

Every white WB lower sheen finish that I have tried marks with ferrous materials, even the £80 per 4.5L stuff. I haven't tried white WB gloss though.

Hmm interesting. Still, it seems we will have to prioritise.

There will be times we put our car keys on the windowledge i suppose. The wifes ring will be a rare thing but may happen. The one that worries me is how putting my clock on it marked it when it only weighs naff all.

 

[blightymam]

Do not try to use Zinsser BIN as an undercoat

It dries too quickly. You will not be able to get a decent finish. Believe me, I discovered the hard way.

That'd be an annoying one if correct since it cost a bit.

Question: Is it ok to use to treat the knots but to then put primer/undercoat & then top coat on afterwards?

Yes. It can leave slight brush marks tho, so go thin! Did you open the tin? Wondering if you could return it and get a small bottle of knotting - much cheaper.

Good luck with your painting job. Don't worry about wondering if you're doing the right thing, yellowing paint V paint that marks/dents and looks tatty as soon as you've decorated.. well, I know what I'd rather.

 

[CluelessDIYer1]

Yes. It can leave slight brush marks tho, so go thin! Did you open the tin? Wondering if you could return it and get a small bottle of knotting - much cheaper.

Good luck with your painting job. Don't worry about wondering if you're doing the right thing, yellowing paint V paint that marks/dents and looks tatty as soon as you've decorated.. well, I know what I'd rather.

I don't think i've opened it. Although having just said that, i might've done just to have a look see what it was like & what it smelled like (no, i'm not a worrying paint sniffer! lol). I bought the BIN in because from all the reading up i did it came back as being best consistently. Other standard 'knotting solution' had many complaints against it for the knots still showing through & that's why i went for the BIN.

Regards the brush marks - it's nothing i can avoid tbh. All my paint jobs have brush marks as i'm simply not good enough to get a glass like finish, but while there's brush marks, there's no gouges in the paint with deep brush lines. It's enough to satisfy me in other words.



Regards your last point - it may be easy for you but i can't make my mind up I'm not a fan of the creaming. I've seen some photos where it's slightly off white. I've seen bits in my house that look white but when you put new-white against it you can see it's faded a bit. This to me is perfectly acceptable.
BUT...
...then i've seen photos online where it has faded like custard & looks absolutely horrendous. This is NO good at all.


The water based isn't chipping or denting to be fair. It's just marking & it's marking under certain metals. I need to think (so long as i don't put my car keys on there again) will they mark in normal day-to-day life. Answer is possibly not (i think).

 

[CluelessDIYer1]

I've just noticed the sanding question didn't get answered.

Haven't been able to do anything on the house today unfortunately as had folk down & it was late before they left.

I checked & it's 60 grit aluminium oxide that's the roughest. Do i need to work (or rather SHOULD i work...) through 60>120>180>paint, or is it fine to go 60>120>paint?

It'd save a whole lot of time, but then i don't want to do it as a corner cutter. Only if it's ok to do.

 

[CluelessDIYer1]

Regards the comment about ferrous metals & the marking -

Turns out Palladium is non-ferrous. Can't speak for my car keys. So there must be a reason why certain metals mark it but others don't.


Also if everything is going to go down the water based route then the manufacturers really are going to have to do something. You can't have paint marking so easily.


Thinking about it, i think the door frames & such will be fine for water based as i don't imagine they're going to get too much metal thrown at them.

The stairs bannister on the other hand will have people running their hands up it....with rings on & i dare say they wont all have titanium rings like i do. This will need to get done in an oil based paint then.