best paint for going over internal gloss

[needmorstuff]

Hi All,

Thanks in advance for any replies - you guys/gals amaze me with your generosity of time and experience.

I am hiring a decorator to go over all my yellowed gloss, internal doors and skirting boards.

The last time I looked into it dulux trade satinwood (solvent based) was on my shortlist and that is what I briefly mentioned to the decorator, he said crown is also good.

Now ultimately I will get whatever he chooses as it's him doing the work but I don't think he will be that fussy and will be fine with what I buy.

So what do you experts usually buy for going over gloss? or is it so subjective that it's all down to personal opinion?

 

[Robbie uk]

Whether its Satin or gloss if its oil based it will yellow quite quickly. Most decorators, myself included have now gone over to water based paints. A lot of the quick dry paints are crap, but there are a few ok ones. Water based is quick drying, goes on easy, and can be over coated up to 3 times in a day. Existing oil based woodwork has to be sanded and de greased well. You may well get away without using an adhesion primer like Zinsser BIN, Coverstain or 123, but if you have the time its best to use it. I tend to use Armstead water based Satin or gloss and get good results. It also stays white. Bedec Aqua is very good too. The best is probably Benjamin Moores. This is American but there are a couple of outlets in the UK and can be ordered online.

 

[needmorstuff]

when you say oil based - is that what dulux call solvent based? so best to stay away from?

 

[garmcqui]

Yup, solvent based = oil based

Would the same process mentioned above be recommended for repainting existing gloss skirting boards/door surrounds in a family bathroom? Would daily showers cause a problem for water-based gloss/satin?).

Thanks

 

[needmorstuff]

excellent! water based for sure then.

 

[needmorstuff]

this stuff? just to be sure.
https://www.duluxdecoratorcentre.co.uk/armstead-trade-quick-dry-satin

also - does anyone know when they have there offers? I seem to remember that they do 3 for 2 at certain time of the year

 

[opps]

Most decorators, myself included have now gone over to water based paints.

I have a lot of respect for you (based upon your posts), but...

I have to strongly (and politely) disagree about the relative merits of waterbased paints over oil based paints.

It is true that the 2010 EU regulations regarding the use of solvents in oil based paints initially resulted in those paints yellowing at an accelerated rate but (IMO) they have improved massively over the last 3 to 4 years.

I want to like waterbased paints, I have had too many years of breathing in toxic fumes but to date I have not found one that allows to me achieve the same quality of finish that matches an OB paint.

None seems to be as durable as OB. Items such as ferrous key rings leave black marks on the WB eggshells.

To date the only water based finish that I have tried that allowed me to paint with "acceptable" tramlines was the one sold by Ray Mann in Fulham. I still needed to add lots of floetrol AND had to obliterate the old yellowed finish with OB undercoat. Oh and recoat time was 16 hours even though it was WB.

And don't get me started on how much they ruin my brushes (even though I spray the brushes with water throughout the day).

BTW how do you use Bin as an UC with a brush, I find it dries too quickly to get a decent finish (great stain blocker though).

 

[ic1927]

Crown trade oil based satinwood does NOT yellow. Been back to a house I did with it two years ago and it's still lovely and white.

 

[opps]

Crown trade oil based satinwood does NOT yellow. Been back to a house I did with it two years ago and it's still lovely and white.

I tend to stick to Dulux Trade, but my experience has been the same.

That said, I have not used it in areas that get no natural sunlight.

For the benefit of the DIYers, it is the absence of natural light that causes OB paint to yellow. The inside of a cupboard will yellow, your window sills wont.

 

[needmorstuff]

and the age old debate still continues..

I will not be applying it and I honestly do not care about a perfect finish. The paintwork is in pretty bad shape anyway, my MAIN concern is it going yellow. In fact that is my only concern. I put some foil wrapped skirting put down at the start of the year in my extension and it really really makes the doors in the room that are part of the existing house look yellow and horrible. I just want white paintwork for years to come - i dont care if I have to touch up knock etc.. I just dont want to have to paint it all in a year or two (or pay someone to do it)

I think I will go with the a water based trade satinwood. I will speak to the decorator about which he prefers to use.

 

[needmorstuff]

on that note.. the foil wrapped stuff. good idea (bad idea) at the time as I was managing my extension and doing what work I could myself so it was a time saving exercise. Now I want to have the joins touched up as I did them and chamfered (please don't hate me) so on the external corners they are a mess.

Should I get a small pot of zinser 123 for the corners so the satinwood takes? or is it going to look cr4p as the colours wont be the same and all the foil wrapped stuff will need zinser 123 and then over top with satinwood?

In short - does anyone have experience of painting over foil wrapped skirting? the stuff thats already "painted"

 

[opps]

I will not be applying it and I honestly do not care about a perfect finish. The paintwork is in pretty bad shape anyway, my MAIN concern is it going yellow.

Water based paint will not yellow.

Apologies for muddying the water.

With regard to the foil wrapped skirting- provided that they are lightly sanded to provide a key, I would imagine that WB paint will be fine. Foil doesn't "rust"

Messy mitres? Sand them back, and maybe go up a few grades to appease the foils finish, perhaps sanding up and down to reduce the risk of pulling it away from the surface?

 

[Robbie uk]

This is a window cill I did last week in Armstead water based Gloss. Doesn't look too bad. I use Fossa Viper Trim Brushes or Proform Blaze, and also Purdy.

 

[opps]

This is a window cill I did last week in Armstead water based Gloss. Doesn't look too bad. I use Fossa Viper Trim Brushes or Proform Blaze, and also Purdy.

Robbie, I don't doubt your ability to paint to a high standard but a window sill in WB is quite different to a 2.4m x 5m bookcase made out of MDF (and not pre coated in two pack primer).

Okay, I accept that we weren't talking about painting large areas but I often need to. At the risk of sounding like a hypocrite, I do use Leyland acrylic primer when hand painting MDF. It is cheap and not particularly good at obliterating the dark MDF colour but it is a dream to sand back. Infact, I sand it back until I see the manufacturer's sanding grooves in the MDF. The level of suction is still pretty high, which helps the OB eggshell soak in and allows me to get away with the one coat of primer and only two coats of OB eggshell.

*sometime later*

Urgh, am in the pub at the moment and appreciate that I am rambling. Have to go home and carry on painting more MDF, then get up at 4am to get the rest finished. I wish that I could get on with WB, but I can't. Sure, part of the problem is technique related but with the assistance of lot of terebene I can sand the pre-finish earlier than i could if I were using a WB paint.

Anywho, thanks for the brush recommendations. I will order some and see how I get on with them. Tnx

 

[Robbie uk]

I know exactly where your coming from Its took me a while to drag myself from Oil to water based especially as im a Dinosaur !!