Boiler/Immersion tripping

[phil30]

Hi all,
Just after some advice and the best place to try and find a good electrician today!

The last couple of days the immersion switch on the cu has been tripping, thought nothing of it and just switched it back on, then last night it happened again, so I turned the boiler switch off in the airing cupboard, went down and flicked the cu switch back on, when I turned the boiler back on there was a spark and a pop from the switch. I have now left the boiler switch off but the immersion switch next to it is still on and the cu switch hasn't tripped since. The boiler is still providing hot water. Obviously I want to get this sorted today and just wanted some advice so I don't get ripped off and would like to know if anyone knows any good electricians in the Dudley/West Midlands area.

Sorry but I'm not sure what type of boiler it is, there are 2 round black casings attached to the boiler that are connected to 2 switches on the wall (its the highest of the 2 on the boiler thats tripping). Our house is all electric. I hope all this makes sense, thanks in advance.

 

[Qedelec]

Sounds odd that the immersion is on the same circuit as the boiler.
Immersion should have its own cicuit.
As for finding a reliable electrician this close to xmas could be a problem, most of us have packed up for the holidays.
Take a look at www.NICEIC.org.uk and go to the householder section, enter your post code and you will get a local contractor.
Failing that I am in B45 so could help if its an emergency.

 

[phil30]

many thanks for taking the time to reply, I'm going to have a look at the switch this afternoon just on the off chance that it could be a loose connection (I'll obviously turn all power off) and take it from there. Thanks again.

 

[Softus]

Hi all,
Just after some advice and the best place to try and find a good electrician today!

The last couple of days the immersion switch on the cu has been tripping, thought nothing of it and just switched it back on, then last night it happened again, so I turned the boiler switch off in the airing cupboard, went down and flicked the cu switch back on, when I turned the boiler back on there was a spark and a pop from the switch. I have now left the boiler switch off but the immersion switch next to it is still on and the cu switch hasn't tripped since. The boiler is still providing hot water. Obviously I want to get this sorted today and just wanted some advice so I don't get ripped off and would like to know if anyone knows any good electricians in the Dudley/West Midlands area.

Sorry but I'm not sure what type of boiler it is, there are 2 round black casings attached to the boiler that are connected to 2 switches on the wall (its the highest of the 2 on the boiler thats tripping). Our house is all electric. I hope all this makes sense, thanks in advance.

You don't have a boiler, you have an economy 7 system, which comprises two side mounted immersion heater elements in a copper cylinder.

The reason for the CU tripping is that one of the elements has corroded and is leaking current through the water in the cylinder.

The remedy is to drain the cylinder and replace the element. You need to do this with skill and care, or you risk damaging the cylinder beyond economical repair - clearly an undesirable outcome.

You also need to identify the faulty element. If the tripping occurs during the night then it is the lower one; if at other times, then the upper one. Since you've mentioned that it happened last night, I would expect that it is the lower one.

If you live in a hard water area, you would be well advised to choose an Incaloy element. Also, tell your supplier (or installer) that you want a manually resettable thermostat fitted with the new element.

You could put off this work until after the Christmas madness, by isolating the faulty element at its wall switch, and relying on the other. You could leave the good one switched on and rely on its themostat to control it.

Does this help?

 

[phil30]

Wow, thanks for the great advice, I am in fact relying in the lower element at the moment as it was the upper one that went pop. This has now been switched off and we still have hot water. I have found an electrician that is coming over next week. Many thanks again to both of you. Just one other thing, why are there 2 elements, as we've only ever had the upper one switched on?

 

[Softus]

Usually, the lower one is connected such that it can switch on only at night, during off-peak hours, when electricity is cheaper. It is lower in order to heat up more water at the cheap rate.

In your case, if the upper one is connected to the cheap-rate circuit, then you're not benefiting in the way it's intended. However, you might not be on an economy 7 tariff, in which case it doesn't matter.

BTW, an electrician won't want to replace the element, but a plumber will. If you allow the electrician to come then he'll charge you a callout to diagnose it and then you'll need to call a plumber to fix it. Best start with the plumber - he'll do both.

 

[Steve]

he'll charge you a callout to diagnose it and then you'll need to call a plumber to fix it. Best start with the plumber - he'll do both.

softus, have you joined the PC crew?

 

[Softus]

softus, have you joined the PC crew?

Not really, just that I've made the mistake before, and am therefore aware that "Phil" might be a "Phillippa"...

 

[ban-all-sheds]

A very philosophical attitude...

 

[phil30]

many thanks for all your advice, I live next door to a plumber so maybe I'll ask him
Can anyone please recommend wheres best to buy a Redring P14? I'm now led to believe that one with a thermostat is best, whcih I think is a P14T. An online outlet would be helpful.

By the way it is Phil

Many thanks again to you all.

Just one last thing, we are on an economy 7 tariff, so should we have both elements switched on at all times?

 

[Adam_151]

Think its normal to have the E7 one to keep a tank of warm water at night when the boiler isn't on and you don't need much. Think the other one is more when you need a top up, can't use the E7 one, and don't want to start the boiler up

We have one, but its not wired in, we do all our hot water in the boiler, we only have it because we may as well have it 'just incase' instead of a blanking plate. As we are getting a pumped shower instead of a heated one soon, might be wise for me to wire it in incase the boiler breaks down, but then again, we are putting an electric shower in the small washroom, so not really too important (and in an emergency I suppose I could always put some flex and a plug on it and run it off the ring temporary...)

 

[baldelectrician]

phil

It's normal for the E7 water heater to be switched on all the time as it is controlled via a timeclock or similar.

The top element heats the top third of the cylinder (if your water goes cold during the day). This is the 'boost' element.

The bottom element heats at night and heats the whole cylinder, the cost per unit of electricity is less than half price.
This gives a full cylinder of hot water at better value.

Both switches may be on but the E7 timeclock ensures only 1 element is on at a time.

 

[Softus]

Can anyone please recommend wheres best to buy a Redring P14? I'm now led to believe that one with a thermostat is best, whcih I think is a P14T. An online outlet would be helpful.

Hi Phil

I recommend a local electrical outlet, so yellow pages is your best starting point.

Just one last thing, we are on an economy 7 tariff, so should we have both elements switched on at all times?

I concur with Adam_151 and baldelectrician, but one thing continues to bother me - since you're on E7, I don't understand why it appears that the top element failed during the night. Unless of course the top element was left on all the time and it failed when switched on at 7am.

Anyway, any plumber worth his salt ought to be able to diagnose, obtain parts, and do the work within a 2 hours callout; especially if he lives next door!

 

[phil30]

hi and thanks again for all the advice, its nice to know i've got some background knowledge to quote when the neighbour comes round!

Softus, the upper element/switch was left on 24/7 as recommended by the previous owners of the house.

I take it now that when all is fixed, we leave the lower E7 switch on 24/7, and use the upper element when we neeed a boost?

I hope I'm making sense, few too many southern comforts tonight

 

[Softus]

hi and thanks again for all the advice, its nice to know i've got some background knowledge to quote when the neighbour comes round!

Softus, the upper element/switch was left on 24/7 as recommended by the previous owners of the house.

On the information currently available that would appear to have been poor advice.

I take it now that when all is fixed, we leave the lower E7 switch on 24/7, and use the upper element when we neeed a boost?

Precisely.

I hope I'm making sense, few too many southern comforts tonight

You are, despite that terrific burning sensation that I guess you have