Boiler working too hard equal high bills

[jklondon]

My gas bills seem very high so I am starting to record how much I use, I have reset the thermostats and relocated them. However - it seems the main reason could be loss of pressure which caused a total cut out of the boiler over the weekend. A valiant engineer came out to do a service and said I was losing about 5bars from the gas meter to what the boiler was getting. Essentially the boiler is having to work extra hard to get the heat up.

He said it was partly down to all the internal piping and bends and also the size of pipes used (too small).

Is this a lot of pressure to lose, it sounds it? Any suggestions on what to do or what I need to be looking for in a gas fitter to help me sort this out?

I have been thinking it would have made more sense for the fitter to run the gas pipe straight from the meter up to the top floor loft where the boiler is rather than run it all through the inside of the house but perhaps I am missing something here?

Thanks
JK

 

[Agile]

You have not understood what he was saying.

You are paying for ALL the gas that you are using!

Gas is expensive now!

Tony

 

[jklondon]

Err yes I get that - the question is how can I resolve this situation - clearly the fitters didnt do a great job even though the system is around a year old.

 

[mogget]

The pressure loss will not be affecting how much you pay for the gas, that is just down to boiler efficiency and how much you use it.

It sounds like the gas pipe to the boiler is undersized and needs upgrading but... please bear in mind that I say that as a DIYer and not an RGI.

 

[jklondon]

The pressure loss will not be affecting how much you pay for the gas, that is just down to boiler efficiency and how much you use it.

It sounds like the gas pipe to the boiler is undersized and needs upgrading but... please bear in mind that I say that as a DIYer and not an RGI.

Right so I am using more gas than I should be to do the same job if the pipework was not undersized. Is the upgrade straightforward job for most fitters?

 

[mogget]

No, the pressure loss will not be affecting how much gas you use.

Provided the pipe is accessible, upgrading it would be a routine job for an RGI.

 

[Tipper]

No. I think you've missed the point.

Your boiler burns gas to provide heat to counter the losses of heat due to your house's contruction/insulation/draughts, etc.

It only burns what it is asked to do to meet your temperature requirements.

The size of the gas pipework is not the issue unless it were so small that it restricted the gas consumption...which it obviously isn't!

The weather has been unseasonally cold and so you will have burnt more gas to keep your house at the temperature you wish it to be.

Therefore it's you and the ambient temperature that affect the gas consumption....not the boiler.

 

[jklondon]

Understood - but then should I not worry about the loss of pressure thats taking place between the meter and boiler? I get there will be some loss of pressure but its much higher than average (I am told)?

 

[mogget]

You are allowed a certain amount of pressure loss from meter to boiler, it is significantly less than 5 mbar. I think however that I should leave it to our resident RGIs to comment on this. Sorry I cannot be of any further help.

 

[Agile]

The regulations say a maximum pressure loss of just 1.0 mbar.

You have five which is on the edge of making your boiler to be classed as At Risk. Presumably its not quite.

Unfortunately this pressure loss is a technical matter an dmakes no difference to your use of the boiler and makes no difference to your gas bill.

Tony

 

[jklondon]

The regulations say a maximum pressure loss of just 1.0 mbar.

You have five which is on the edge of making your boiler to be classed as At Risk. Presumably its not quite.

Unfortunately this pressure loss is a technical matter an dmakes no difference to your use of the boiler and makes no difference to your gas bill.

Tony

Thanks Tony - still a bit confused as to what the practicality of such a loss means, should I start checking for leaks? Should I even get it fixed?

 

[Tipper]

It's not going to be leaks...you would have smelt the gas by now!

Technically the pressure loss is how difficult the flowing gas finds it to get from meter to boiler. This is due to friction losses from the small size of the pipe, how long the route is and how many bends there are. All these factors add to the difficulty and increase the resistance and hence loss of pressure.

Get an RGI to quote for a replacement pipe that is sized for the length and complexity of route involved.

 

[big-all]

i think what everybody is saying
if you get everything up to the best you can you may marginally get better performance of perhaps 1 or2p in the pound
so you may spend £300 sorting the pipework etc requiring you to burn several hundred pound worth off gas to get your money back[2%=£15000]

 

[Agile]

On this design of boiler, reducing the pressure loss in the pipe is unlikely to make ANY difference to the efficiency!

Tony

 

[JonCa]

IMHO one of many reasons why your using to much gas could be.....
-Your boiler is designed to have gas available at a certain pressure and volume, when it is burning.
-The correct gas delivery will ensure that (assuming everything else is in spec) the boiler is able to deliver the boilers designed heat output.
-If the pipe delivering the gas is too small it will be resistive to the gas flow and hence can reduce the pressure and volume of gas available at the boiler connection point.
-If less gas flows then less energy is available to your boiler.
-If the boiler does not receive adequate gas borne energy it can have problems generating enough heat for whatever its heating.
-As a result :-
-with reduced gas pressure/supply it could spend all day burning at its maximum but not deliver enough heat to satisfy your chosen thermostat setting for the house.
-with correct gas pressure/supply the same boiler could heat the house in a couple of hours and spend the rest of the day with little top-up burns.

End result low pressure could result in burning more gas than necessary. While the meter will happily sit there doing its job recording what you are using. Of course the boiler will also be burning efficiently.

Low gas pressure/supply volume is a significant safety issue. Each boilers design has to consider the burn rate of gas for safe operation. If the supply is wrong then the burn will not be as designed, wrong gas/air ratios etc and could become explosive instead of simply burning alternatively it could get sooty and block up. It all depends upon how wrong it is and what management system the boiler has.

Gas pipe run:- often seen on outside of building.

I'm not recommending anything other than you seek professional assistance from suitably qualified people, and that's not me