Boris skipped 5 Cobra meetings. Austerity, incompetebce and hubris.

[sodthisforfun]

Actually now is the time to shine the light on the mistakes and errors whilst you might still be able to make a change.

Using your logic then Prof Ferguson was wrong in bringing his model to the Government and exposing their model was wrong. He should have just sat on it till this passes?

No, the logic I have is by all means, hold people to account - later. Speak up, find a solution, don't just point score. Prof was right to speak up, so are people about PPE, but the fact someone hasn't attended meetings (when they'd find out the relevant info later anyway), or a party hasn't given a timeline as to when we can return to work etc (nobody has a crystal ball, just educated guesswork) and to complain that a party leader is at home, recuperating from this horrible virus isn't so important...

I would be more impressed if people worked together - all parties.

And please, Sir Gal, we know that this isn't you really holding people to account out of massive concern for the welfare of the country, sorry to be so blunt. It's another of your posts bashing the gov - before this virus, it was all about brexit. I said before a few weeks ago, it's pretty much all you do on here.

This isn't time imo.

 

[SirGalahad]

The Government rebuttal is poor to say the least - it does not refute the facts that Bojo missed those meetings.

It does not refute that we did not have enough PPE and Ventilators.

Neither do they refute that our pandemic stocks of PPE were run down due to austerity, and replaced with "just in time" contracts.

Claim - By the time the Prime Minister chaired a COBR meeting on March 2 ‘the virus had sneaked into our airports, our trains, our workplaces and our homes. Britain was on course for one of the worst infections of the most insidious virus to have hit the world in a century.'

Response - This virus has hit countries across the world. It is ridiculous to suggest that coronavirus only reached the UK because the Health Secretary and not the PM chaired a COBR meeting.

Was that written by Cummings? The point is that Bojo should have chaired COBRA because it was already here, and not that it was here because he didn’t.


Johnson spent 12 days on a country retreat holiday in February - while his ministers, medical and science experts were discussing plans for dealing with the virus. They were told to cut contact down with him.

Not refuted, and this is after the first UK case on 31st January, and the real danger of the virus becoming evident in Government (with the WHO calling it a Public Health Emergency of International Concern on 30th January).

Johnson did return to London for a night though - to attend a Conservatives fundraising ball.


Emergency stockpiles of PPE had dwindled and gone out of date after becoming low priority due to austerity cuts.

Not refuted. Indeed, they don't even correct the word 'depleted' when defending the decision to send equipment to China! They also say China reciprocated the donation. What the heck does that mean? I assume what they actually mean is we flash bought a load of stuff from China. Also, what makes up those 12 million items, I wonder.

Training to prepare key workers for a pandemic was on hold for 2 years while contingency planning was diverted to deal with a possible no-deal Brexit.

Not refuted.

The Conservatives were first warned about mass deaths and lack of PPE in January

The refutation is that this was discussed on January 27th (with regard to PPE), yet the government has already acknowledged sending PPE to China, and that took place in February.

Despite the above, 279,000 items of PPE were sent to China in February

As above. The government also says the 12 million bits of PPE have arrived between April 2nd and April 15th. When did we get into crisis mode?

The Conservatives were first advised that a lockdown would be necessary on 22 January


Not refuted.

190,000 people flew into the UK from Wuhan & other high-risk Chinese cities between January & March.

The last rehearsal for a pandemic was in 2016 which predicted the health service would collapse.

Key meetings on pandemic planning under the Conservatives were being regularly 'bumped off'

Testing labs were not approached for help until 1 April.

 

[JohnD]

On 3rd February, Boris made a speech saying that UK could profit by trading when outer countries were in lockdown. Taking advantage of risk and panic for economic gain.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=230209944902707

 

[sodthisforfun]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...eny-pm-missed-five-coronavirus-cobra-meetings

“Most Cobra meetings don’t have the prime minister attending them,” Gove said. “That is the whole point.” Cobra meetings were “led by the relevant secretary of state in the relevant area”, he argued.


“Whoever is chairing those meetings reports to the prime minister. The prime minister is aware of all of these decisions and takes some of those decisions. You can take a single fact, wrench it out of context, whip it up in order to create a j’accuse narrative. But that is not fair reporting.”


Gove is correct in that prime ministers do not always, or even routinely, chair Cobra meetings. But it is common for them to do so during a major crisis.

The five meetings Johnson missed came during a period in late January and February where he spent an entire parliamentary recess out of sight at his official country retreat of Chequers"

I wonder if those who went to the meeting told Boris after the relevant points after?

 

[SirGalahad]

No, the logic I have is by all means, hold people to account - later. Speak up, find a solution, don't just point score. Prof was right to speak up, so are people about PPE, but the fact someone hasn't attended meetings (when they'd find out the relevant info later anyway), or a party hasn't given a timeline as to when we can return to work etc (nobody has a crystal ball, just educated guesswork) and to complain that a party leader is at home, recuperating from this horrible virus isn't so important...

I would be more impressed if people worked together - all parties.

And please, Sir Gal, we know that this isn't you really holding people to account out of massive concern for the welfare of the country, sorry to be so blunt. It's another of your posts bashing the gov - before this virus, it was all about brexit. I said before a few weeks ago, it's pretty much all you do on here.

This isn't time imo.

Later? That Cygnus report into the pandemic response in 2016 still has not been released. Another report on stockpiling PPE in 2017 again hasn't been released. This Government has a track record for not releasing reports.

Is gagging doctors point scoring? Health workers fearful of speaking out about what is actually going on for fear of losing their jobs?

So if the found out the relevant information anyway they still didnt act makes it even worse.

If people are not made aware of what is going on now - then how can you effect a change when it matters? Not after the fact.

Well you have not provided any defence other than lets keep quiet.

I would rather people stayed silent for a minute in memory of the 81 NHS staff and tens of thousands who have died than clapping them for doing a job without the right equipment.

 

[JohnD]

Boris has an eye for a profit (once the dead bodies have been cleared away)

https://news.sky.com/video/listen-boris-tells-dead-bodies-in-libya-comment-11066612

 

[SirGalahad]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...eny-pm-missed-five-coronavirus-cobra-meetings

“Most Cobra meetings don’t have the prime minister attending them,” Gove said. “That is the whole point.” Cobra meetings were “led by the relevant secretary of state in the relevant area”, he argued.


“Whoever is chairing those meetings reports to the prime minister. The prime minister is aware of all of these decisions and takes some of those decisions. You can take a single fact, wrench it out of context, whip it up in order to create a j’accuse narrative. But that is not fair reporting.”


Gove is correct in that prime ministers do not always, or even routinely, chair Cobra meetings. But it is common for them to do so during a major crisis.

The five meetings Johnson missed came during a period in late January and February where he spent an entire parliamentary recess out of sight at his official country retreat of Chequers"

I wonder if those who went to the meeting told Boris after the relevant points after?

So you are arguing that the PM does not need to attend COBRA meetings only to then add well unless it is a crisis which then proves Bojo or the Government didn't think we needed to upgrade our response during that time ergo the reports saying we lost valuable time - about 5 weeks.

The final point that Boris was not given the minuted of the COBRA meetings is either incompetence or negligence- - you would think Bojo would ask for them?

 

[sodthisforfun]

So you are arguing that the PM does not need to attend COBRA meetings only to then add well unless it is a crisis which then proves Bojo or the Government didn't think we needed to upgrade our response during that time ergo the reports saying we lost valuable time - about 5 weeks.

The final point that Boris was not given the minuted of the COBRA meetings is either incompetence or negligence- - you would think Bojo would ask for them?

Nope. As I said, I am saying now is not the time.
Does knowing that Boris didn't go to meetings change what we have to do today? Does it?

 

[sodthisforfun]

Later? That Cygnus report into the pandemic response in 2016 still has not been released. Another report on stockpiling PPE in 2017 again hasn't been released. This Government has a track record for not releasing reports.

Is gagging doctors point scoring? Health workers fearful of speaking out about what is actually going on for fear of losing their jobs?

So if the found out the relevant information anyway they still didnt act makes it even worse.

If people are not made aware of what is going on now - then how can you effect a change when it matters? Not after the fact.

Well you have not provided any defence other than lets keep quiet.

I would rather people stayed silent for a minute in memory of the 81 NHS staff and tens of thousands who have died than clapping them for doing a job without the right equipment.

So... right now you wish to have an full-scale inquiry as to what has gone wrong, and we all know how long and how much money those take.
Or, would you rather that we concentrate on what is happening NOW, use those funds and those brains in getting through this? I know which I'd rather.

I honestly, hand on heart, don't actually give a stuff if he went to meetings anymore. Yes he should've gone, noboby will argue that, however he didn't and that can't be changed. I want to know what he and the rest of our highly paid, supposed smart leaders are doing for us right now.

 

[JohnD]

Nope. As I said, I am saying now is not the time.
Does knowing that Boris didn't go to meetings change what we have to do today? Does it?

That's a question that perhaps you shouldn't have asked, because you might not like some of the answers.

Let's suppose we are members of a football club. we appoint a general Manager who tells us he will cause us to win the cup, and be prosperous and successful.

Let's suppose we find that he misled us, we win nothing, and we are on a downhill path to failure and destruction.

Let's suppose that we discover that he has some defect, such as alcoholism or embezzlement or incompetence.

Should we do anything about our mistake today? Or should we wait three years, when the club is bankrupt?

 

[SirGalahad]

You are missing the point. The fact he didnt' go is part of the issue - the lack of response is what happened. Were we prepared even when Italy was going into lockdown, we had forewarning since the end of January.

Are front line workers dying because of their exposure to this virus and lack of appropriate PPE?

Also asking for a full scale inquiry - you are creating straw man arguments.

Waiting for the Government to own up to their mistakes- doesnt take an inquiry just takes honesty - or should we keep quiet about that?

 

[IT Minion]

It doesn't take an inquiry to see that the Government has done a poor job on managing the Covid threat on many levels.

They should be held accountable for those failings, but that's probably something for the next election unless there's a good reason to think they've done something criminal, rather than just bog standard laziness and incompetence.

 

[sodthisforfun]

You are missing the point. The fact he didnt' go is part of the issue - the lack of response is what happened. Were we prepared even when Italy was going into lockdown, we had forewarning since the end of January.

Are front line workers dying because of their exposure to this virus and lack of appropriate PPE?

Also asking for a full scale inquiry - you are creating straw man arguments.

Waiting for the Government to own up to their mistakes- doesnt take an inquiry just takes honesty - or should we keep quiet about that?

I don't know why you find it so hard to understand what I've said. I am not getting into a peeing competition about strawman rubbish.
I simply said - for the last time - that now is not the time and the place. Today I need, same as the NHS workers, someone to locate PPE right now, now now now. Not someone complaining about missed opportunities.

Mistakes have been made, I said that in my original post. Move on, sort it out, then go back and ask serious questions and roll a few heads perhaps. Make sure this never happens again.

End of.

 

[Mottie]

The Government rebuttal is poor to say the least - it does not refute the facts that Bojo missed those meetings.

It does not refute that we did not have enough PPE and Ventilators.

Neither do they refute that our pandemic stocks of PPE were run down due to austerity, and replaced with "just in time" contracts.

Claim - By the time the Prime Minister chaired a COBR meeting on March 2 ‘the virus had sneaked into our airports, our trains, our workplaces and our homes. Britain was on course for one of the worst infections of the most insidious virus to have hit the world in a century.'

Response - This virus has hit countries across the world. It is ridiculous to suggest that coronavirus only reached the UK because the Health Secretary and not the PM chaired a COBR meeting.

Was that written by Cummings? The point is that Bojo should have chaired COBRA because it was already here, and not that it was here because he didn’t.


Johnson spent 12 days on a country retreat holiday in February - while his ministers, medical and science experts were discussing plans for dealing with the virus. They were told to cut contact down with him.

Not refuted, and this is after the first UK case on 31st January, and the real danger of the virus becoming evident in Government (with the WHO calling it a Public Health Emergency of International Concern on 30th January).

Johnson did return to London for a night though - to attend a Conservatives fundraising ball.


Emergency stockpiles of PPE had dwindled and gone out of date after becoming low priority due to austerity cuts.

Not refuted. Indeed, they don't even correct the word 'depleted' when defending the decision to send equipment to China! They also say China reciprocated the donation. What the heck does that mean? I assume what they actually mean is we flash bought a load of stuff from China. Also, what makes up those 12 million items, I wonder.

Training to prepare key workers for a pandemic was on hold for 2 years while contingency planning was diverted to deal with a possible no-deal Brexit.

Not refuted.

The Conservatives were first warned about mass deaths and lack of PPE in January

The refutation is that this was discussed on January 27th (with regard to PPE), yet the government has already acknowledged sending PPE to China, and that took place in February.

Despite the above, 279,000 items of PPE were sent to China in February

As above. The government also says the 12 million bits of PPE have arrived between April 2nd and April 15th. When did we get into crisis mode?

The Conservatives were first advised that a lockdown would be necessary on 22 January


Not refuted.

190,000 people flew into the UK from Wuhan & other high-risk Chinese cities between January & March.

The last rehearsal for a pandemic was in 2016 which predicted the health service would collapse.

Key meetings on pandemic planning under the Conservatives were being regularly 'bumped off'

Testing labs were not approached for help until 1 April.

If you are genuinely concerned about it, perhaps you should get a placard and March up and down outside Downing Street like that bloke who was on every news programme shouting "Stoooop Breeeexit” pointing out the errors of the government. Starting a thread on a diy forum is going to achieve precisely fck all.

Other than the opportunity to knock the government, what exactly is the point of this thread?

 

[fillyboy]

The government also took issue with an excerpt of the newspaper report that said "the virus had sneaked into our airports, our trains, our workplaces and our homes" by the time Mr Johnson chaired a COBRA meeting on 2 March.

"This virus has hit countries around the world," the Department of Health said. "It is ridiculous to suggest that coronavirus only reached the UK because the health secretary and not the PM chaired a COBRA meeting."

Read more: https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/...etebce-and-hubris.543225/page-6#ixzz6KAvWBYnb