brand new not a clue-help replacing sockets

[ohbugger]

hi all, this is my first post and very rearely attempt anything to do with electrics apart from swapping like for like components but could do with a bit of advice.

apologies if i get anything wrong.

i'm swapping a single socket over to a more decorative one, but when i removed the exisitng socket there was 4 red wires, 4 black and 4 earths all going directly into the back of the socket, which looked a bit random and i couldnt get all the cable into the back of the new socket. i looked up a few circuit diagrams but they all look way to neat.

i bought some cable which i think was 27amp 2.5mm2 for sockets from b&q and some large connector blocks.

i put all 4 of each wires together into one side of the connectors and ran a single wire off the other side of each to the back of the new socket.

it all seems to work and it doesnt make me dance when i use it but wondered if its ok.

is it true that if i get the wires back to front the water in the kettle will get colder rather than hotter when i switch it on, i only ask as when i wired up the electric light switch the wrong way and connected the live to the outer casing, when i switched it on everything went black for a while

any advice much appeciated

 

[securespark]

It is bad practice to do as you have done.

It is bad practice to have four cables at any one point on a circuit of socket outlets.

Is it a RF circuit or a radial?

I am surprised you only thought the cable is the right size but went ahead and installed it anyway: what if the cable is undersized?

Just because it doesn't get you dancing doesn't mean it's not dangerous.

No, if you get the wires back to front, you could end up with:

1. A shock risk.

2. Reverse polarity, where the neutral is fused instead of the line. This means that even if the fuse blows in a fault situation, the appliance will still be live.

Stop wasting time and effort and playing with the lives of yourself and your family and any other poor unfortunate who may use this socket and get it sorted by someone who knows exactly what they're doing.

 

[ohbugger]

hi, thanks for the quick reply,

when i said i think thats what the cable is, i meant i couldnt remember, its is 2.5mm2, max rating 240volts 27 amps recommended for ring mains and sockets.

is what i have done any worse than was there before, i have no idea whether its RF or radial.

would the four wires mean that someone has connected another socket to this one.

whats the best way to locate a trusted electrician so i dont end up with someone who knows less than me, if thats possible, i think i misunderstood this site, i thought it was about 'do it yourself' but didnt read the 'not'. i guess it means dont do it yourself, get someone else to do it
thanks

 

[experience]

is it true that if i get the wires back to front the water in the kettle will get colder rather than hotter when i switch it on, i only ask as when i wired up the electric light switch the wrong way and connected the live to the outer casing, when i switched it on everything went black for a while

LOL

 

[ohbugger]

i bloomin knew my oven shouldnt have an icebox, my nan always complained that when she made a cup of tea the heart rate monitor on her pacemaker reads 50 beats a second,............

on a slightly more serious note, i have a double socket and single socket underneath my worktop below the offending socket, a double socket to the left, and an extractor fan above, would it be reasonable to assume someone is powering the rest of the national grid off my one outlet

its been like this since i moved in 18 years ago, but would rather put it right, or have someone do it for me, wouldnt want to DIY it

any suggestions would be much appreciated as to how it should be, at least then when i get an electrician, i dont have to believe him when he says my house needs re building and let him take the part P out of me

thanks

 

[Chri5]

is it true that if i get the wires back to front the water in the kettle will get colder rather than hotter when i switch it on,

i bloomin knew my oven shouldnt have an icebox, my nan always complained that when she made a cup of tea the heart rate monitor on her pacemaker reads 50 beats a second

From what you mention it sounds as if some has spurred off the socket with the 4 cables.

2 will be the in and out 'sides' of the ring circuit, the other 2 covering service for the fan and service for under counter.

Ring circuits should only have 1 x spur, however the 2nd spur off to the fan is a fixed device, and although not 'right' isn't as bad as having a 2nd socket spur (a double socket could take 26amp of load, a fan 100w or approx 0.4amp.

If the fan were to need a clean, how do you isolate it- does it have a switch or fused spur ? or would you have to pull the main fuse ?

Ideally someone needs to restrict the socket with the 4 cables down to 3 cables so there is only 1 x spur. The other cable would need to be rerouted and terminated at another socket which doesn't use a spur at the moment.

It sounds like your kitchen has suffered from a dose of kitchen fitters who think they are electricians, a primary reason why Part P was brought in to regulate the quality of persons doing electrical work.

 

[SgtTrojan]

Forgive me if I'm wrong but this sounds like a p*ss take. Where is sheds when you need him?

 

[ohbugger]

If the fan were to need a clean, how do you isolate it- does it have a switch or fused spur ? or would you have to pull the main fuse ?

It sounds like your kitchen has suffered from a dose of kitchen fitters who think they are electricians,

hi thanks very much for the reply, that makes a lot of sense, i dont really use the fan anymore and i am considering getting a new one so i think i will disconect it and get someone to wire in a new one, if i did need to clean it i would turn off at the fusebox, would that be better or shall i still get one of the other sockets taken from another socket

i normally run a kettle off the socket in question, to the left is the microwave and under the worktop is the washing machine and separate fridge and freezer.

the kitchen was fitted out by my ex wifes dad before we moved in and he wasnt an electrician as you guessed.

he has probably been hoping the house would burn down

 

[ohbugger]

Forgive me if I'm wrong but this sounds like a p*ss take. Where is sheds when you need him?

you are forgiven, its not a p*55 take, but i think i part p'd off the first guy which wasnt my intention but dont worry my nan is already dead

 

[ohbugger]

Ideally someone needs to restrict the socket with the 4 cables down to 3 cables so there is only 1 x spur. The other cable would need to be rerouted and terminated at another socket which doesn't use a spur at the moment.

re read and it makes even more sense, to spur off another socket, how would they do this, chase up the wall along the ceiling and back down as i havent another socket nearby,

i am looking into going on a basic electricians course as its something i dont really understand as its a world of difference from vehicle electrics

 

[Chri5]

There is nothing wrong with adding a single back box near to the existing (above counter socket) then you could have:-

Existing socket on ring main
Socket below counter as spur off the above socket
Fan controlled by 3 am fused spur plate on the ring circuit.

So to do this you'd pull off one side of the ring cable, terminate that in the fused spur load side, then re link the ring with a 8" bit of cable betwenn the above counter socket and the fused spur.
This then means the spur is part of the ring, not a spur. Hope that makes sense.

 

[ohbugger]

thanks chris, i think i will read that a few more times, i think my correct answer should be 'do you live in kent??'

that does sound really good, i'll see what bits i dont understand and then ask some more questions