British Doctors.
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All doctors are different, and hospital doctors are indeed diffrent to GPs, however I expect you will there is little overlap between those working 37hours and those being paid £100k+
It may also be the case that a lot those 'working 37hours' are then doing another 5 hours a day of paperwork outside of the alotted 37hours.
Also, as its timely news, the recent strikes are not because Doctors are refusing for the pension rate to be increased, its because there pension rate was renegotiated to increase a few years ago, and now stands at a far higher contribution that other simularly paid public sector workers.
While those that have chosen are a little stuck in terms of changing carear, doctors have to be paid atleast somewhat inline with simular and other professions, such as lawyers/dentists/soliceters or when it comes to choosing a profession not enough would choose to be doctors, and we're already short of them on most areas of the country.
Daniel
S
streaker99
It's not the case that GPs work over 37.5 hrs a week. Some may possibly do because they have decided to do a particularly well paying agency job on a saturday morning that will give them another £300 for a morning work.
GPs simply do not do paperwork outside of surgery hours for three reasons.
1. The NHS clinical systems or the surgeries shut down at home time
2. They pass paperwork onto admin staff
3. They plan their work so that surgeries finish early enough to allow any admin on their part to be completed for home time.
Also your idea of work and a doctors are completely different. A GP will do no more than 8 sessions a week usually thats only 24hrs of patient contact time. They will already have added their admin time into these sessions as well. ie GPs would normally block appointments for the last hr of their session to perform admin. (which is usually only very bried notes passed to admin to create the referal letters in full.)
What's happened in the past thirty or so years is the overwork in hospital medicine has shifted from the juniors to the seniors.
When I started out, the houseboy would do the 100 hour week, the consultant would bunk off early and head to the golf course or his private rooms. He would know his registrar was competent enough to do most things and not disturb him unless it was important.
Now, the houseboy works to his set hours and bunks off early and the consultants have to fill in the slack. Registrar grades are still green behind the ears and cannot really be left alone any more.
Unfortunately this means that hospital doctors are now poorly trained for when they become consultants as they haven't got enough experience.
Thirty years ago the steep learning curve was in the first three years. Now it's when you become a consultant.
The more senior current day consultants grew up in the days when everybody pulled together and did what it took to get things done and they still have that mindset. Current lot coming up through the ranks don't think that way.
Quite worrying really.
When I started out, the houseboy would do the 100 hour week, the consultant would bunk off early and head to the golf course or his private rooms. He would know his registrar was competent enough to do most things and not disturb him unless it was important.
Now, the houseboy works to his set hours and bunks off early and the consultants have to fill in the slack. Registrar grades are still green behind the ears and cannot really be left alone any more.
Unfortunately this means that hospital doctors are now poorly trained for when they become consultants as they haven't got enough experience.
Thirty years ago the steep learning curve was in the first three years. Now it's when you become a consultant.
The more senior current day consultants grew up in the days when everybody pulled together and did what it took to get things done and they still have that mindset. Current lot coming up through the ranks don't think that way.
Quite worrying really.
or perhaps when the juniors were too exhausted to think straight, and when left on their own had high death rates which nobody liked to mention in public.
sadly some of the old gits still have the "I suffered so the youngsters must suffer too" mindset
We don't allow truck drivers to work when exhausted, what's the benefit in making junior doctors do it?
Doing the job we pay for, and cutting into his golfing and his private practice? My heart bleeds.
As I suggested, the registrar was competent and he would try to get a good night kip when on call and only be called when things got very busy or (s)he was needed.
As I also suggested, juniors pulled together. Juniors on a quiet firm would cover for juniors on a busy firm so they could get some kip. Is wasn't as bad as some think.
Death rates are still today high when juniors are involved, they might not be as tired nowadays, but they are less competent.
I would prefer to be a patient in the old days. Fortunately technology is better now which does help quite a lot, scans for example can be reported on by somebody remote.
The BMA has, however, done a cracking job in getting pay up and hours down.
As I also suggested, juniors pulled together. Juniors on a quiet firm would cover for juniors on a busy firm so they could get some kip. Is wasn't as bad as some think.
Death rates are still today high when juniors are involved, they might not be as tired nowadays, but they are less competent.
I would prefer to be a patient in the old days. Fortunately technology is better now which does help quite a lot, scans for example can be reported on by somebody remote.
The BMA has, however, done a cracking job in getting pay up and hours down.
I dont know what your experience of GPs is, but mine is as the eldest son of one. My mums been a GP all my life and I know what time she leave the house and what time she gets home from work and I can asure you she DOES do work before and after both at work and typically doesnt stop for lunch. Patient slots are 10mins a pop regardless of how long it takes to see to each one, and they reguarly under presure to book more patients than there are slots.
Im not going to get into an agrument about it but your knowlage of a GPs working hours are certainly totally at odds with my experience, as I said, she works a 50% job share with another GP in the practice and does more hours in a week than my dad and I do on a full-time 40hour week as salaried professionals. She gets paid more too, but I wouldnt be working the hours she works for the wage im paid.
Daniel
A GP working full time would be earning close to or over £100K. But what is your point? No one is stopping the checkout chick from becoming a doctor. Why is it that people are not willing to work hard, but are jealous of others who have?
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Nothing to do with jealousy, the lowest paid and the highest paid are too far apart re pay. John Reid doubled the GP pay - so they halved their hours.
And being as they work for the NHS almost exclusively - why aren't they PAYE?
No wonder the health service is short of money - the greedy doctors are creaming it all in.
To use your logic - why don't we double or triple their pay? They deserve it don't they? If not - then why not?
And being as they work for the NHS almost exclusively - why aren't they PAYE?
No wonder the health service is short of money - the greedy doctors are creaming it all in.
To use your logic - why don't we double or triple their pay? They deserve it don't they? If not - then why not?
Im not defending her, im mearly stating she and the other partners and her practice does a hell of a lot more than 37 hours a week.
While it wont win favors with all readers, to compare the work of a check out operator to that of a GP or any other professional or self employed induvidual is nothing short of laughable. Regardless of how hard they work, the level of training and responsibility alone are an order of magnetude out.
Daniel
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But they are sending the health service bust. They are not worth what they are paid. Medical school is six times over subscribed - train the students that are willing to work for a career they care about - not just to end up as millionaires while people die through lack of treatment.
Never mind eh mate - she'll leave you a bob or two.
Overpaid, under worked and in the round - pretty hopeless. You have to Google your own illness and just tell them to write the script - they never have a clue.
Never mind eh mate - she'll leave you a bob or two.
Overpaid, under worked and in the round - pretty hopeless. You have to Google your own illness and just tell them to write the script - they never have a clue.
Problem with GPs is that they are far far too intelligent for the job, that's because you need to be far too clever to get into medical school than you need to be a GP. The hardest exams a GP ever did was their A-levels.
So they get bored. Then 85% of what walks through the door would get better anyway so they get even more bored. So it gets to the stage where all they care about is the money. So every time the government wants to force through changes the GP's object on principle - until they get bought off.
Same is happening with the changes being made now. GPs are going along with it because they are being allowed to run the privatised services. Now if they didn't have an financial interest they would object on principle and nothing would go through.
Similar things are happening in hospital medicine too. Consultants are forming private entities to cash in.....
It's also not easy for your GP to work out what is going wrong with a lot of people in the time you have. Don't think you can work it out yourself from the internet, if you do you are lucky.
Not easy to be a GP, but they were well paid 30 years ago and their incomes have rocketed since.
So they get bored. Then 85% of what walks through the door would get better anyway so they get even more bored. So it gets to the stage where all they care about is the money. So every time the government wants to force through changes the GP's object on principle - until they get bought off.
Same is happening with the changes being made now. GPs are going along with it because they are being allowed to run the privatised services. Now if they didn't have an financial interest they would object on principle and nothing would go through.
Similar things are happening in hospital medicine too. Consultants are forming private entities to cash in.....
It's also not easy for your GP to work out what is going wrong with a lot of people in the time you have. Don't think you can work it out yourself from the internet, if you do you are lucky.
Not easy to be a GP, but they were well paid 30 years ago and their incomes have rocketed since.
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