Building control refusing to sign off structural work due to electrical work being done.

[Hurstie]

Hi guys,

I recently decided to take down the wall between my kitchen and dining room. I also decided while it was down to take all the plaster off the walls (it was all blown) and take the ceiling down.

I raised a building notice and then took down the wall and installed the structural steel as per engineers specs. I had a building control visit and they said everything was fine to carry on, and to call them back after plasterboarding for final sign off.

Anyway, while the ceilings were down I decided to change from 2 ceiling roses to LED downlighters. I also moved the cooker switch to a different wall (same cable, just moved to the side).

The inspector came back for final sign off. He says everything is fine with the steel and plasterboard but won’t sign off unless I produce an electrical report for the “electrical work that has been carried out”.

I was under the impression I could change a ceiling rose to downlighters and move sockets as a DIY job. It all works perfectly and my electrician neighbour popped his head in and gave my wagobox junction box and connections in my switches and downlights the thumbs up (off the record).

Have I made a mistake here or should I be able to argue with them and get them to sign off for the structural work?

 

[securespark]

I can't see how they can insist on certs. The electrical work is not part of the building notice.

And it is not reportable.

They are nosy b'stards.

Tell the geezer to sign off the work that is part of the building notice else you will be complaining to his boss.

I had LABC round to check a flat roof and insulation under the floor. Two people came, one during the work and another after completion.
The first one insisted that they had not had any paperwork for the extension which was done in 1970.

I pointed out it was a bit late, especially considering I bought the house 29 years later.

I wanted to use 170mm rockwool under the floor, but the first guy said no, only 100mm rigid would do. This was a) miles more expensive, b) really hard to find at that time and c) more of a pain to fit.

The second guy said "I would have signed off on rockwool."

The first guy went up on the roof and said the fall and drainage arrangements were OK, the second guy looked from the ground and was not happy. He told me that he would have to talk to the first guy when he got back to the office. I argued that the first guy got up on the roof and OK'd it and how could he possibly doubt the roof when he could not even see it?

The second guy also noticed the ensuite being built in the bedroom and asked why I had not put in a notice for that.

Cheeky b'stard. It had been there 51 years and was just being rebuilt.

My first experience and I am not at all impressed. Not a good impression to make on a householder. And we paid dearly for this privilege.

 

[ericmark]

Where do you live, it is reportable in Wales, kitchen is a special location. I would down load the free forms from the IET website fill in the minor works sign it and give it to the inspector.

I also had problems with the LABC inspector, he wanted me to pay for some third party to inspect and test what I have done, my son said well what happens if it fails, I assume the one with highest qualification is taken as correct, my dad has a degree what does your tester have, he then backed down.

But missed the fact lintel was only supported on one side. And on completion the guy did not visit, I submitted the installation certificate and he issued the completion certificate which arrived through the post.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Never assume those in charge know what they are doing.

 

[JohnW2]

I can't see how they can insist on certs. The electrical work is not part of the building notice.

I'm not so sure about that - I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that one has to answer question(s) about "any electrical (and plumbing) work involved".

Kind Regards, John

 

[Mottie]

Never assume those in charge know what they are doing.

Here we go, Boris knocking again......

 

[Hurstie]

I'm not so sure about that - I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that one has to answer question(s) about "any electrical (and plumbing) work involved".

Kind Regards, John

What is considered “involved”? It’s totally unrelated to the structural change.

 

[ericmark]

You have not yet said where you live, in Wales he is well within his rights.

 

[JohnW2]

What is considered “involved”? It’s totally unrelated to the structural change.

As I said, I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that a Building Noice/whatever relates to everything which is part of a 'project' which comes within the scope of the Building Regs - which, as you know, have sections relating to all sorts of things (electrical, plumbing, ventilation, fire safety, insulation etc. etc.) which are not 'structural'.

I would hope that others may have more authoritative knowledge about thisds than I do.

Kind Regards, John

 

[john4703]

I remember some years ago doing plumbing work for a Chinese Takeaway. The building inspector said he wanted me to chsange the plastic pipe outside to cast iron. I said I did not realise that was needed and asked what regulation he was quoting so I could read up on it. He said it was not a regulation just that he thought it was better and signed off the work.

 

[thomp1983]

If your in England then the inspector is wrong, your perfectly entitled to alter existing circuits diy, you just can't install a new circuit.

The issue will be how much effort it takes to get them to back down and apply the rules properly.

 

[Hurstie]

You have not yet said where you live, in Wales he is well within his rights.

My apologies. I’m in England.

As I said, I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that a Building Noice/whatever relates to everything which is part of a 'project' which comes within the scope of the Building Regs - which, as you know, have sections relating to all sorts of things (electrical, plumbing, ventilation, fire safety, insulation etc. etc.) which are not 'structural'.

I would hope that others may have more authoritative knowledge about thisds than I do.

Kind Regards, John

I appreciate the info, John. Thanks.

 

[JohnW2]

If your in England then the inspector is wrong, your perfectly entitled to alter existing circuits diy, you just can't install a new circuit.

As a standalone item of electrical work, it certainly would not be notifiable in England

However, as I've said, I have a feeling that any work which comes within the scope of any part of the Building Regulations comes within the scope of a Building Notice for a 'project', even if the (e.g electrical) work would not, in itself, be notifiable if undertaken alone.

However, as I've said, I'm not sure about that - but there surely must be some people here who understand the system with more certainty than I do?

Kind Regards, John

 

[flameport]

I was under the impression I could change a ceiling rose to downlighters and move sockets as a DIY job.

You can, and that work isn't notifiable in England.
However you can also DIY work which is notifiable.
The difference is whether it's notifiable or not. Doesn't matter who actually does the work - only that notifiable work is notified.
It's very common for plenty of non-notifiable work to be included with things that are notifiable. The project as a whole is notified, not individual parts of it.

I raised a building notice

That is intended for experienced persons who can do everything in accordance with building regulations - as in they already know what they are doing, and they can provide the appropriate documents for the various elements of the work.

The problem you have is the scope - BC have evidently decided that the ceiling removal and the electrical is now part of the works as a whole, and therefore want the appropriate certificate for the electrical work that was done.
Given that wall removal always results in substantial associated works, it's not surprising that they consider the two rooms and whatever is in them as part of the work.

You have two options:
1 - provide the appropriate electrical certificate they requested
2 - argue that it's not needed, find they won't change their opinion, and then discover they now want further items you didn't consider, such as full calculations for heat loss as you decided to

to take all the plaster off the walls

which is altering a thermal element of the structure.

 

[securespark]

Are you saying they are going to be vindictive if he questions them?