Building regs - is PIR right form

[JohnnyF]

Hi,

We renovated our house a few years ago and it involved getting building regs - we had an RSJ put it. installed a downstairs cloakroom, had the house rewired and other bits.

The building regs said he couldn't sign it off till we got the electrical certificate. It took us a long time to get the form from the electrician and they ended up giving us a 'Domestic electrical installation periodic report'. We went back to building regs and they said it isn't the right form. I don't recall what they said the right form was and to be honest we didn't follow it up. In hindsight it was stupid but at the time the whole renovation and credit crunch had stressed us out that we wanted to be done with it.

Now, I want to get the building regs sorted as we are considering moving. I was wondering if anyone knows what the right form would be for a rewire and can other electrician's issue these even if they did not do the install but after inspecting it?

Cheers

 

[DaftPunk]

If the electrician was registered to self certify his work then he should have notified his scheme provider who would in turn notify your local authority building control, and you'd have received a buildings regulations complaince certificate.

As you haven't received this, either he didn't register the job, or he isn't able to self certify.

First of all you need to chase up the electrician and find out if he's registered. If he is, ask for a buildings regs compliance certificate.

 

[ericmark]

An Electrical Installation Certificate should be issued for any new circuits and a Minor works for alterations to existing circuits these can only be issued by the guy doing the work.

The periodic inspection report or as it's called now the Electrical Installation Condition Report is next best thing and often accepted by LABC where an electrical installation certificate is not available.

The two forms have nearly the same information on them and I don't really understand why he did not issue the electrical installation certificate as blank forms are available from the IET web site free of charge so I would guess there is something missing from the PIR which is likely why the LABC would not accept it?

See http://electrical.theiet.org/wiring-regulations/forms/ for the forms.

I assume you have paid the LABC their fee but have not received the completion certificate this means that any search will show this. If as I expect you did the work and the electrical guy tested it for you then it's a simple case of copy the details to correct form and sign it.

Today in England if it required a Minor works except for bathroom it does not need a completion certificate only with an installation certificate do you need a completion certificate to go with it.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Was the electrical work as part of this extension under an application made by you (Did you notify building controls and inform them that electrical work was going to required)?
Or did you leave this up to the electrician?
If you left it up to the electrician are they registered to do this?
Check from the list below if your electrician is a member of a body that allows them to do this and self cert work.
http://www.competentperson.co.uk/

Were any new circuits installed from the fuse board/consumer unit or were they just extended from existing circuits?
What type of rooms s the extension comprised of?

 

[JohnnyF]

We had the house completely renovated. So total rewire including new consumer unit, new boiler, central heating, new kitchen, bathrooms, all ceilings down, total replaster etc. It was an old student house so a right mess.

we had a structural engineer report for the RSJ - it wasn't extension just removal of part of a chimney breast and increasing the height of where an old lintel used to be to giving more headroom in one part of the kitchen. And then we added a downstairs loo that was added to the regs application. So the application I filed (it was back in 2007 / 2008) was for the RSJ and downstairs cloakroom. We assumed the electrician would sort his certificates. I think the building regs bloke was just interested in the electircs for the cloakroom (so a light and fan)

Unfortunatley the electrician fell out with the builder, they worked on other jobs together and had a disagreement. The electrician was from out of town so after falling out with builder it was impossible to get him to come and finish off and took us 5 months off pestering to get any form of certificate. After building regs said wrong form we just couldn't face chasing electrician again.

Sounds like i'm best getting in touch with the building regs at the council and asking them what is best way of sorting it.

ta for all advice

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

As you had a complete rewire including new CU, all this work would have required to be notified.
Firstly check whether the electrician can self cert via weblink in previous post.
Then contact the installer requesting an EIC (electrical installation certificate)
If they will not produce one, then if they are registered report them via complaints procedure to the body they are a member of.
If they are not registered, I would talk to trading standards and see what they can other as far as advice (Don't be over hopeful though of a positive outcome)
Once this has been done, then talk to building controls with the issue they have and explain that the electrician/builder have left you in the poop!

Although a EIC is not the same document as a EICR, a lot of the information is the same, and providing you have no codes and the outcome is Satisfactory then I don't see why building controls would not be happy with this, other than the fact they don't get the notification fee that would be required.

 

[JohnnyF]

i can't find the company name on that link. His brother signed the periodic. I know they were talking about quitting as his missus had set up a business that was taking off so maybe he was registered then but not now.

The council are forwarding my query to the surveyor for my area.

Cheers for advice

 

[Taylortwocities]

Do let us know the outcome… Thanks!

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Do let us know the outcome… Thanks!

I echo that, would be interesting to see what kind of resolution is offered to to OP.

 

[ericmark]

Your problem was in a way an echo of my problem with mothers wet room.

Builder was engaged to do all the work. He sub contracted electrical work and we fell out with builder.

When I realised we would have to complete the work our selves I contacted the LABC to say we were taking over the job. It was emergency work as until complete no toilet that my mother could use. And no shower she could use.

There were many problems but I'll keep to the electric problem.

We did know know the extent of the work or what quality the work was which could not be seen and neither me or my son either wanted to rip all out and start again or sign for work we had not done.

The electrical installation certificate has a space for three signatures.
Design
Installation
Inspection and Testing
So for Design and Installation we wrote in the builders name and only signed the inspection and testing part of the certificate. I expected it to be refused or at least the LABC would arrive and inspect however after about 3 weeks the completion certificate arrived through the post.

OK both me and my son hold C&G2391 certificates and the inspector had seen on his only visit before we started that we had all the test gear.

We were lucky it transpired the builder had not informed the LABC before he started but since the work was for a disability there was no LABC charge.

However what was a surprise was no permit to work. As a result there is nothing to tell any electrician if he is expected to be a scheme member and register the work through the scheme or if included in the LABC's remit to inspect and if not satisfied with paperwork test. We were surprised to be told in no uncertain terms by LABC it was up to the owner to ensure all documents and fees are submitted and paid to the LABC not the builder or the electrician doing the job.

The result is that all the electrician has to say is the builder was including his work in the application, and the builder like wise can say he left LABC stuff to the owner and there is no way to show this was not the case.

 

[JohnnyF]

spoke to the building regs today after a bit of email tennis - our initial application was for installing some RSJs and a downstairs toilet.

The building regs just want the form for any electrics associated to that application so it is the cloakroom toilet and fan (I need to get the fan changed).

The council would be happy to take a form from the electrician but no chance of that so I need retrospective approval. That'll cost £255 and the council will send an independent electrician round to inspect.

I'll be happy to pay that just for the peace of mind.