building regs/smoke alarms

[vibrobullit407]

I'm working with an approved electrician at the moment on a rewire of a large 3/4 bed Victorian terrace. He has designed (nothing on paper) the installation and I am basically just helping out with the install. I'm having a bit of a disagreement in regards to installation of the smoke alarms. I have suggested that we should install them on all floors including the basement (which is to be used as a workshop/storage), and in the attic as it has been converted into a habitable space, even though the customer is saying that he will not use it as a bedroom. The approved electrician is saying that there is no need to fit any in the basement or the attic space.

Could someone confirm that what the approved electrician is proposing is against building regulations and possibly provide a link please. It is my understanding that it is a breach of building regs and feel uncomfortable putting my name to a rewire that does not comply.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Unless the house is being let-out, as I understand it there are no requirements for smoke alarms to existing properties.

 

[Starspark1]

As suggested this is not an extension or a new build therefore i believe legally not required.
Maybe you should listen to the APPROVED electrician as obviously he is the competent person on the job and seems to know a lot more.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

These are the basic requirements, if a new dwelling or if being let.
NB: It is not an absolute requirement that mains alarms are installed in letted property but is very much recommended.
In a standard house (single/multi-storey, with no storey exceeding 200m2 floor area).
Interlinked smoke alarms to be installed:
*in circulation areas between sleeping places and where fires are most likely to start (eg kitchens/living rooms)
*In circulation areas within 7.5m of the door to each habitable room
* At least one on each storey
* If the kitchen is not separated from the circulation area by a door, a compatible interlinked heat detector or heat alarm must be additionally installed in the kitchen.
So if positioned correctly and providing the kitchen has a door, you could get away with one alarm on each floor.

 

[wingcoax]

As pointed out, not required in basement , But as being used as workshop i would fit as standard.

 

[vibrobullit407]

Unless the house is being let-out, as I understand it there are no requirements for smoke alarms to existing properties.

Even if the house is undertaking a complete refurbishment and rewire?
I personally price to fit smoke alarms on all floors on a rewire and thought that it was required by building regs especially with a loft conversion as in this case. I did not think that it was just good practice. Never been asked to remove them from quotes in the past but if they can be omitted then fair enough.

Another problem with this job is that before I turned up I was informed that the approved electrician was going to notify building control but now I have found out that he hasn't bothered as the customer did not want to foot the bill. He is not a member of a approved scheme and don't know where I stand as this job should most definitely be notified!

 

[vibrobullit407]

As pointed out, not required in basement , But as being used as workshop i would fit as standard.

Would a basement used as a workshop/storage not be classed as a high risk fire area? Also if a fire started in the basement it could theoretically spread to the full ground floor pretty quickly due to it (this property) being an open area with access to the ground floor timbers and flooring.

 

[Starspark1]

Another problem with this job is that before I turned up I was informed that the approved electrician was going to notify building control but now I have found out that he hasn't bothered as the customer did not want to foot the bill. He is not a member of a approved scheme and don't know where I stand as this job should most definitely be notified!

If you are so concerned then why dont distance yourself from the job!!!
Or at least relay these concerns to him!!

 

[wingcoax]

It would depend a lot on whether the basement ceiling was boarded, as was my last house. I installed an alarm as std.

 

[vibrobullit407]

If you are so concerned then why dont distance yourself from the job!!!
Or at least relay these concerns to him!!

Would I not have a duty to inform building control as an unwitting percipient in this farce? I have had 2 days on this job and really regret being involved. Don't worry, I certainly will not be going back, just wondering what my next step should be regarding the BC breach.

 

[Starspark1]

Do you mean participant?
Well you could inform building control, but as this sounds like an off the books job of some sorts would you really want them or related government bodies questioning if you or your mate were paid for your 2 days? did you declare this? if you paid tax on it? etc etc.
I would personally put this down to lack of experience? perhaps slightly naive? And would just take it as a lesson learned.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Even if the house is undertaking a complete refurbishment and rewire?

As far as I am aware, makes no difference if complete re-wire.
If rooms are being converted and extension being built then that is a different issue.

Another problem with this job is that before I turned up I was informed that the approved electrician was going to notify building control but now I have found out that he hasn't bothered as the customer did not want to foot the bill. He is not a member of a approved scheme and don't know where I stand as this job should most definitely be notified!

Well it should be notified prior to work starting.
Unregistered persons are required to notify, your electrician should have done this, if the client did not want to foot the bill, the electrician should not have undertook the work.

 

[vibrobullit407]

Do you mean participant?
Well you could inform building control, but as this sounds like an off the books job of some sorts would you really want them or related government bodies questioning if you or your mate were paid for your 2 days? did you declare this? if you paid tax on it? etc etc.
I would personally put this down to lack of experience? perhaps slightly naive? And would just take it as a lesson learned.

Funnily enough this is not an "off the books job". This guy has just started up on his own and has not yet registered with a scheme. Thought I would help him out, and yes I would have declared the earnings if I were to go back to the job, but as said this will not be happening so I assume I will just walk away with out the pay for the 2 days work. I have nothing to hide and just asking advice on what to do next. And just for your info I certainly will not be working with this joker again as I don't know any self respecting spark that would not follow the legal procedures required.

"lack of experience" or naivety do not come into this so I am unaware at what you are getting at with these parts of your post.

If rooms are being converted and extension being built then that is a different issue.

Which is the issue in regards to the loft conversion, as mentioned in the original post.

So smoke alarms should be fitted as per building regulations then? Or just to the converted loft space? Personally I would install or price to install as stated by PBofD as I'm sure any self respecting electrician would on a rewire.

 

[vibrobullit407]

I would personally put this down to lack of experience? perhaps slightly naive?

If you were designing this installation would you quote and push to install smoke detectors on all floors or not?

 

[RF Lighting]

Mains smokes are desireable on this job, but you are not compelled to fit them from what you describe.