Cable through Zone 0, LV fan in celing

[frank999]

I understand 240v electrical items are not allowed in Zone zero under a bath, can T&E though run though zone 0 (ie under the bath) to terminate at a power supply either on the ceiling (above 2.25mt), or instead in the stud (accessed from outside the bathroom only).

Is it safe to install an IPX5 Xpelair DT100HTA 240v fan on the ceiling, and inside a shower cubicle with a fixed head - floor to ceiling height is 2.3mt, the shower tray to ceiling height will be less than 2.25mt.
Or should a LV fan be used instead.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

Just to talk about under the bath: as long as you need a tool to access this location, you can put what you like there. It is not zone 0.

 

[Adam_151]

can T&E though run though zone 0

No, Because they'd be running through the bathwater and it would make bathing difficult

Note the above post, under the bath is not zone 0, zone 0 is the inside volume of the bath (i.e. the bit you fill with water)

 

[EFLImpudence]

Is it safe to install an IPX5 Xpelair DT100HTA 240v fan on the ceiling, and inside a shower cubicle with a fixed head

Fans are allowed in zone 1 if made for that location.

- floor to ceiling height is 2.3mt, the shower tray to ceiling height will be less than 2.25mt.

Stupidly, the relevant height is measured from the "finished floor level", so that would be considered 'outside the zones'.

 

[frank999]

as long as you need a tool to access this location, you can put what you like there
Thanks, but for arguments sake - couldn't say a long term drip from a water connection under the bath pool in that area, and say a poorly positioned and non IP connection box then allow the conduction of current to the metal bath feet, adjacent to the pooling of water.

Regards metal baths, I understand under current Regs, RCD protection means you no longer need to bond metal work in bathrooms any more, do I understand that correctly ?

Stupidly, the relevant height is measured from the "finished floor level", so that would be considered 'outside the zones'.
Agree, I can't see the logic, a water drenched naked body will be closer to the fan electrics whilst in the cubicle, than a toweled down post showered body standing outside the cubicle, some Shower cubicles can be a reasonable height from the 'floor', especially if raised on a plinth to allow shower tray traps and waste pipes ?

 

[EFLImpudence]

as long as you need a tool to access this location, you can put what you like there
Thanks, but for arguments sake - couldn't say a long term drip from a water connection under the bath pool in that area, and say a poorly positioned and non IP connection box then allow the conduction of current to the metal bath feet, adjacent to the pooling of water.

Don't position boxes poorly.

Regards metal baths, I understand under current Regs, RCD protection means you no longer need to bond metal work in bathrooms any more, do I understand that correctly ?

Baths only ever needed bonding if they themselves were/are in contact with the ground which would be main bonding.
RCDs plus a couple of other conditions do remove the need for supplementary bonding.

Stupidly, the relevant height is measured from the "finished floor level", so that would be considered 'outside the zones'.

Agree, I can't see the logic, a water drenched naked body will be closer to the fan electrics whilst in the cubicle, than a toweled down post showered body standing outside the cubicle, some Shower cubicles can be a reasonable height from the 'floor', especially if raised on a plinth to allow shower tray traps and waste pipes ?

Don't poke around inside the fan while taking a shower.

 

[frank999]

Don't position boxes poorly.
Wise words

Don't poke around inside the fan while taking a shower.
Tenants do the strangest things ... think LV might be the way to go.

Condensate in ceiling fan ducting ... should you expect a rain fall of condensate - or is it insignificant in the South of the UK, the fans are on the ceiling, with the ducting going into an immediate elbow adaptor, as such there was no room for one of these:

I cannot find anything smaller or lower profile, one that could be retrofitted, does one exist ?
I am concerned condensate will drip onto the fans electrics ...

 

[EFLImpudence]

Tenants do the strangest things ...

Are you going to make sure they don't have too many paracetamol?

think LV might be the way to go.

Under 1,000V is low voltage. Best to always say 12V (or whatever) and 230V.

 

[frank999]

Are you going to make sure they don't have too many paracetamol?
Forunately the landlord is not responsible for such poisonings, new government regulation (1998) was brought in to limit the availability of aspirin and paracetamol from retail outlets.

Under 1,000V is low voltage.
Sorry I should have set the context, we are talking about an installation in a domestic/residential property, where mains voltage is 240v, but comment accepted as a general point.

I am concerned condensate will drip onto the fans electrics ... the void space above is too restricted to fit the above trap ... does a lower profile trap exist, guess I could cut down and reduce the height of the above, the ducting is insulated in the void, but is a horizintal run of 5mts, letting the over run timer run for a good while I gather helps, other options are to resite the fan at the other end of the duct - or as an inline fan.

 

[JohnW2]

Under 1,000V is low voltage. Sorry I should have set the context, we are talking about an installation in a domestic/residential property, where mains voltage is 240v, but comment accepted as a general point.

As you presumably understand, EFLI's point was that, daft though it may be for 99% of the general public (who think differently), as far as the electrical industry is concerned, 230V or 240V is "Low voltage" (because it's under 1000V).

In any event, as he said, to talk about 'low voltage' or 'extra low voltage' (or even 'high voltage') is never enough - far better (and safer) to always talk about the actual voltage concerned - 12V, 24V, 230V, 240V or whatever - and, as well as 'necessary' and safer, that would avoid all the arguments about terminology!

Kind Regards, John

 

[frank999]

as far as the electrical industry is concerned, 230V or 240V is "Low voltage"
Appreciate the comment.

So the industry acronym terms: LV, ELV (of whch their exists SELV, PELV, FELV) fall into defined brackets of voltage - but as you say, when quoting such terms, the actual voltage needs to be quoted, to avoid misunderstandings or misinterpretations.

 

[ericmark]

It seems USA is an odd one out, and they have different limits for words low voltage and extra low voltage so some items are incorrectly labelled. I also had a problem with condensate in long pipe, but time the fan is running is the main thing, was set to around 3 minutes after light switch turned off, no legal need for fan, so no need for long run on, however using the 15 minutes as in building regulations and problem solved.

 

[frank999]

Guess the restricted space inside the duct must dry out quite quickly - once the shower steam has dissappaited, I was going to set the over run timer to 20 minutes anyway, bathroom fans bnever seem quite pu to the job, always wondered why bathroom fans are so meek, yet kitchen fans made ware with such gusto ? I would have thought a showers worth of steam be greater and have more need than a pans worth of boiling peas.

 

[JohnW2]

as far as the electrical industry is concerned, 230V or 240V is "Low voltage"
Appreciate the comment. So the industry acronym terms: LV, ELV (of whch their exists SELV, PELV, FELV) fall into defined brackets of voltage ...

One would like to think so, but it's even a little more confusing than that, in as much as the 'defined brackets of voltrage are not necessarily mutually excludive ... it appears that the official definition of LV states a maximum, but no minimum - so, on that basis, all flavours of ELV (SELV, PELV & FELV) are also 'LV'.

I don't think it is intended to make sense

- but as you say, when quoting such terms, the actual voltage needs to be quoted, to avoid misunderstandings or misinterpretations.

Indeed, that's the crucial thing. Connecting a 12V piece of equipment to a 24V supply would not be too clever, even though both are 'ELV' (and, per above, quite probably also both 'LV' - so, based on the acronyms {if that's all one had}, the 12V item might end up being connected to a 230V/240V supply!).

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnW2]

It seems USA is an odd one out, and they have different limits for words low voltage and extra low voltage so some items are incorrectly labelled. ...

As I've said many times before before, given the confusion (on the part of a vast majority of the population) surrounding the terminology, I'm very thankful that, at least in the UK, I don't think I've ever seen a 'consumer' 230V product labelled as 'Low Voltage' (and probably not even many, if any, 'non-consumer' products, come to that).

Kind Regards, John