Camping Hookup....

[Spark123]

I've not heard of any caravan sites which offer a 32A supply, I imagine if they are then they will be for a specific purpose hence you'd need to take into account the demand.
As for the tent electric supplies, I don't think they'd count as an electrical installation so doubt they'd be in BS7671 at all. They are basically just an extension lead with a couple of bits and bobs more.

 

[AdrianUK]

We regularly visit UK campsites during the summer.....

Most are 16A supplies, some are 10A ....and I've only ever seen one 6A supply on a larger site Cornwall. We have never managed to trip a hookup MCB .... and Ive tried!!! Even using the kettle (1800W), fan heater (2000W) and a few lights the 10A MCB still didn't trip before the kettle boiled.

I can understand why some parks want to limit the demand to 10A per pitch ... you only need to look around any campsite on a cool evening & see all the tents glowing orange with the IR heaters inside!

I've read that there is now move to replace these unmetered/fixed charge hook-ups with a pay-per-use system using small DIN rail mounted Kwh meters in the connection boxes.

Its also my interpretation of the regs that the current rating of the OUTLET should be 16A, I don't think that precludes it being serviced by an MCB smaller than 16A since such a configuration wouldn't be any less safe.

 

[Lectrician]

Card, token and fob meters are becoming very popular. The electrical consumption of sites can be huge, many thousands of pounds per month.

 

[ericmark]

I started with caravans in 1958 with my Parents towing a Sprite Aerial with a Standard 8. Over the years things have changed from 7 pin plug wiring to caravan mains supply.

First caravan to have main supply I used did have 6A supply in 1998 but even then I was told for living vans minimum was 32A only tourers could be limited to 6A.

As time has gone on we have had RCD's and the caravan built so near impossible to use without a mains supply. Although water heater may be 660W and fridge only 110W plus battery charger 370W these items are automatic so one may be using 1000W without knowing. Even with a travel kettle it uses 1000W so boiling a kettle while water heater and fridge were working would likely take out a 6A MCB so clearly 6A is no longer an option.

Caravan and Camping club offer cheaper sites to members and in the main we use those sites and to date every one has 16A supply. Unless giving 16A the operator would to avoid being called out at all hours have to give access to the trip.

But as to warning I had a power meter which like the meter you installed did give volts, amps, watts, and power factor but I just did not look at it. To work either it would have to light up or sound changing reading I just would not notice.

As already stated "Socket-outlets of higher current ratings shall be provided where greater demands are envisaged." makes it clear it is talking about the actual power not the type of socket provided.

For Marinas it is worded different. "709.553.1.12 In general. single-phase socket-outlets with rated voltage 200 V - 250 V and rated current 16 A shall be provided.
Where greater demands are envisaged socket-outlets with higher current ratings shall be provided."

The "In General" implies it's not a fixed requirement if it was not a fixed requirement with caravan sites it would also have that phrase "In General".

 

[JohnW2]

As already stated "Socket-outlets of higher current ratings shall be provided where greater demands are envisaged." makes it clear it is talking about the actual power not the type of socket provided.

It was me who 'stated' that, but I don't think it can be said that it makes anything 'clear', particularly given that everyone else here is interpreting that reg differently. However, if they are right, I certainly think that quoted statement is pretty silly!

Kind Regards, John

 

[Parody]

So Iv got a question for you all,

I want to mount this on a metal spikes so it not sitting on the floor so it get kicked and to keep it out of the puddles ... my plan is to put a piece ply behind the unit then attach the "spike" to the ply and the cu

I should have asked the electrian but now can't get hold of him as he off but if I do attach the metal spike thing would I have to earth it ? Sorry as it may be stupid question but worth asking in my opinion

 

[Spark123]

Hmmmmm, can you use a plastic or wooden spike?
Not so much needing to earth it being the issue, the fact it is earthed (i.e. in good contact with mother earth) and not the same as the earth on your electrical system could cause a slight risk.
In fixed electrical systems we call them extraneous conductive parts and protective bond them.

 

[JohnW2]

Hmmmmm, can you use a plastic or wooden spike? ... Not so much needing to earth it being the issue, the fact it is earthed (i.e. in good contact with mother earth) and not the same as the earth on your electrical system could cause a slight risk. ... In fixed electrical systems we call them extraneous conductive parts and protective bond them.

Indeed - although the metal spike would really only be a visible manifestation of the more general issue, in that 'mother earth' (perhaps combined with wet bare feet, or wet feet in sodden shoes, and maybe even puddles) is everywhere around the campsite. I suppose that the OP's metal spike is in some ways analogous to anything metal in contact with the earth in a garden in which electrical equipment is used.

If one were concerned, I suppose one could deal with it just as one would with a discrete extraneous-c-p in a fixed installation - i.e. by bonding it to the electrical earth (which is probably what the OP meant by 'earthing' it).

Kind Regards, John

 

[Parody]

Hmmmmm, can you use a plastic or wooden spike? ... Not so much needing to earth it being the issue, the fact it is earthed (i.e. in good contact with mother earth) and not the same as the earth on your electrical system could cause a slight risk. ... In fixed electrical systems we call them extraneous conductive parts and protective bond them.

Indeed - although the metal spike would really only be a visible manifestation of the more general issue, in that 'mother earth' (perhaps combined with wet bare feet, or wet feet in sodden shoes, and maybe even puddles) is everywhere around the campsite. I suppose that the OP's metal spike is in some ways analogous to anything metal in contact with the earth in a garden in which electrical equipment is used.

If one were concerned, I suppose one could deal with it just as one would with a discrete extraneous-c-p in a fixed installation - i.e. by bonding it to the electrical earth (which is probably what the OP meant by 'earthing' it).

Kind Regards, John

So do I earth it? if I do earth it will I create a problem by make it a earthing point for everyone (make sense ??) what Iv thought about doing is bolting/screwing the unit to ply then screw the spike into the wood the metal spike won't be in contact with nothing inside of the unit just the ply

 

[JohnW2]

So do I earth it? if I do earth it will I create a problem by make it a earthing point for everyone (make sense ??) what Iv thought about doing is bolting/screwing the unit to ply then screw the spike into the wood the metal spike won't be in contact with nothing inside of the unit just the ply

As you can see, opinions are likely to vary, so you need to see what others say. I personally cannot see any real point, for reasons I have outlined. The metal spike will present no more 'risk' than will any other metal object in contact with the ground (e.g. a tent peg/pole) or, indeed, the wet soil itself, and you can't go around connecting all of those things to your electrical system's 'earth'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

Where the problem lies is one can't really assume site owners follow the rules. The rules don't allow a TN-C-S supply so although it could be a TN-S more likely it's a TT supply so the spike you have should be same as earth anyway.

It should be the same material as the main earth and there is nothing to say what the main earth should be made of. Often steel is used with Mariners so as not to damage steel hulled boats but on a camping and caravan site more likely copper covered steel.

So I would not really want to earth any spike stuck in the ground but looking at the caravan rules it states "Structural metallic parts which are accessible from within the caravan shall be connected through main protective bonding conductors to the main earthing terminal within the caravan." So it would seem if metal it should be earthed.

Personally in a tent I would use all Class II equipment just in case there is a fault and earthed items become live. So I would use a wood or plastic spike.

 

[JohnW2]

Personally in a tent I would use all Class II equipment just in case there is a fault and earthed items become live.

I agree.

So I would use a wood or plastic spike.

I'm not sure that I understand the "So", since this doesn't seem to follow from your previous statement. I obviously agree that use of a plastic spike would make the question go away (not so sure about wood, which could be soaking wet and quite conductive). However, where would you stop? - if one didn't want to use a metal spike to hold up the OP's bit of plywood (to which an insulated electrical enclosure 'happened to be attached'), what would you say about metal tent pegs, or metal tent poles in contact with earth - not to mention the wet soil itself?.

Provided one only uses Class II equipment, and therefore has no exposed metal which is connected to the electrical system's 'earth'/CPCs, I really don't see any need to worry about the 'true earth' presented by metal objects in contact with soil, or the soil itself, do you? Indeed, even if one did have Class I items, there's nothing one can do about the wet soil, which would probably represent the greatest (albeit minuscule) theoretical 'hazard' in that situation.

Kind Regards, John