Can a generator with Schuko sockets be used in Ireland?

[Cárthach]

I reside in the republic of Ireland (where plugs and sockets are the same as in the UK), and I just bought a portable electric generator online from the Netherlands. Unfortunately, now that it has arrived, it turns out that the two electric sockets on the generator are Schuko sockets (each 220v, 16A), thus posing a compatibilty problem with the plugs we have in Ireland.

Btw, my problem is similar to the one in the OP of the following old but very informative thread, except that mine is essentially the reverse problem.
https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/can-schuko-plugs-be-wired-to-uk-bought-electrical-items.138102

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The generator I bought is a 'Champion 3500 Watt LPG Dual Fuel Inverter Generator'.

The full range of Champion inverter generators is listed at this webpage:
https://www.championpowerequipment.co.uk/browse/products/Champion-Inverter-Generators.

But there are two versions of this 3500 Watt generator listed.

• The first version has model no. 73001i-DF and has a UK flag next to it.
  
• The second version has model no. 73001i-DF-EU and has an EU flag next to it.

It turns out that model no. 73001i-DF has the UK-style sockets, and so this is the one I should have bought, whereas model no. 73001i-DF-EU has the Schuko sockets.

The high-level specs didn't mention anything about differing sockets, so I wrongly assumed the reason for the two distinct model nos. had something to do with the UK having left the EU e.g. maybe for tracking whether or not import tax was due).This was very poorly marketed because there are 3 EU countries that use the UK-style sockets: Ireland, Malta and Cyprus.

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As a workaround, I'm thinking of using an extention lead and simply changing the plug on the lead from the UK-style plug to a Schuko plug, while maintaining the sockets at the other end of the lead as UK-style sockets.

My intention with the generator is to be able to power one or maybe two devices at a time by directly connecting the devices to the generator in case of a power cut e.g. radio, washing machine.

Having read through the older thread mentioned above, I don't think there should be an issue regarding polarity (since alternating current flows back and forth between the two directions anyway) and so either of the Line or Neutral wires on the extention lead could be connected to either of the two Line pins on the Schuko socket. Of course, the Neutral of each socket on the extention lead will likely now have high voltage on it. But as pointed out in the older thread, Neutral should always be treated as if it had high voltage anyway.

Is there anything I'm missing here or am I okay to go ahead with this fix?

 

[Cárthach]

I also have a follow-on question that is more hypothetical. It is generally possible to use a transfer switch to switch between the mains supply and a home generator (including a portable generator) in order to supply power to the whole house in case the mains supply goes down.

Considering that my generator is only 3.5kW, it probably wouldn't be a very practical thing for me to do. Although with Champion generators, it is possible to connect two of the same model no. in parallel so as to get nearly double the output power, in which case it might be a little bit more practical to use in order to supply power to the whole house.

But would there be a problem regarding polarity with using my generator from the Netherlands in order to supply power to my house in Ireland? I ask because, not only would I potentially be supplying power to pluggable appliances e.g. radios, computers, hair-driers, but also to appliances that are 'hard-wired' to the house's electricity system e.g. electric cooker, electric shower, gas-fired central heating system, burglar alarm, ceiling light sockets.

 

[FrodoOne]

I reside in the republic of Ireland (where plugs and sockets are the same as in the UK), and I just bought a portable electric generator online from the Netherlands. Unfortunately, now that it has arrived, it turns out that the two electric sockets on the generator are Schuko sockets (each 220v, 16A), thus posing a compatibilty problem with the plugs we have in Ireland.

Btw, my problem is similar to the one in the OP of the following old but very informative thread, except that mine is essentially the reverse problem.
https://www.diynot.com/diy/threads/can-schuko-plugs-be-wired-to-uk-bought-electrical-items.138102

--

The generator I bought is a 'Champion 3500 Watt LPG Dual Fuel Inverter Generator'.

The full range of Champion inverter generators is listed at this webpage:
https://www.championpowerequipment.co.uk/browse/products/Champion-Inverter-Generators.

But there are two versions of this 3500 Watt generator listed.

• The first version has model no. 73001i-DF and has a UK flag next to it.
  
• The second version has model no. 73001i-DF-EU and has an EU flag next to it.

It turns out that model no. 73001i-DF has the UK-style sockets, and so this is the one I should have bought, whereas model no. 73001i-DF-EU has the Schuko sockets.

The high-level specs didn't mention anything about differing sockets, so I wrongly assumed the reason for the two distinct model nos. had something to do with the UK having left the EU e.g. maybe for tracking whether or not import tax was due).This was very poorly marketed because there are 3 EU countries that use the UK-style sockets: Ireland, Malta and Cyprus.

--

As a workaround, I'm thinking of using an extention lead and simply changing the plug on the lead from the UK-style plug to a Schuko plug, while maintaining the sockets at the other end of the lead as UK-style sockets.

My intention with the generator is to be able to power one or maybe two devices at a time by directly connecting the devices to the generator in case of a power cut e.g. radio, washing machine.

Having read through the older thread mentioned above, I don't think there should be an issue regarding polarity (since alternating current flows back and forth between the two directions anyway) and so either of the Line or Neutral wires on the extention lead could be connected to either of the two Line pins on the Schuko socket. Of course, the Neutral of each socket on the extention lead will likely now have high voltage on it. But as pointed out in the older thread, Neutral should always be treated as if it had high voltage anyway.

Is there anything I'm missing here or am I okay to go ahead with this fix?

You could ask the manufacturer/agent to supply two Replacement BS 1363 Socket-Outlets and fit these in lieu of the Schuko Socket-Outlets.

If the suggested cost of these is significantly greater than obtaining extension leads with BS 1363 Socket-Outlets and Schuko plugs, you could examine the existing Schuko Socket-outlets (to see how they are mounted) and then investigate the following items, to determine if any are replacements for the existing socket-outlets.

https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/1198716-13a-uk-socket-outlet-black
https://sinolec.co.uk/en/euro-modul...-ip44-uk-power-socket-bs1363-splashproof.html
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/plug-sockets/8245646

By its looks (compared with the socket-outlets pictured in https://www.championgenerators.ie/p...erter-Petrol-Generator-Dual-Fuel-73001i-DF-EU ), the second one may be suitable. (At £3.30 each)

 

[mattylad]

ISTR that generators can be used to power the home however you MUST make it so that the incoming mains is disconnected before genny power is applied otherwise you will be feeding the grid (and can harm someone that is expecting power to be off).
However, as you say your not likely to have sufficient power for the whole house.

Do some web searches, many have done it. Things like isolating fridge/freezer/heating circuits are done so that the genny powers only powers them etc.

 

[winston1]

How often do you get power cuts? I know someone who set up an elaborate battery inverter system for backup power. When he eventually got a power cut 5 years later it failed as the batteries had died of old age.

With a generator it is likely the petrol will have gone stale and it won't start.

 

[Cárthach]

You could ask the manufacturer/agent to supply two Replacement BS 1363 Socket-Outlets and fit these in lieu of the Schuko Socket-Outlets.

If the suggested cost of these is significantly greater than obtaining extension leads with BS 1363 Socket-Outlets and Schuko plugs, you could examine the existing Schuko Socket-outlets (to see how they are mounted) and then investigate the following items, to determine if any are replacements for the existing socket-outlets.

https://www.cef.co.uk/catalogue/products/1198716-13a-uk-socket-outlet-black
https://sinolec.co.uk/en/euro-modul...-ip44-uk-power-socket-bs1363-splashproof.html
https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/plug-sockets/8245646

By its looks (compared with the socket-outlets pictured in https://www.championgenerators.ie/p...erter-Petrol-Generator-Dual-Fuel-73001i-DF-EU ), the second one may be suitable. (At £3.30 each)

That's another option that I hadn't thought of. Thanks a lot for researching into the sockets. I might contact the manufacturer as you suggest.

ISTR that generators can be used to power the home however you MUST make it so that the incoming mains is disconnected before genny power is applied otherwise you will be feeding the grid (and can harm someone that is expecting power to be off).
However, as you say your not likely to have sufficient power for the whole house.

Do some web searches, many have done it. Things like isolating fridge/freezer/heating circuits are done so that the genny powers only powers them etc.

It's a road I probably won't be going down but it's certainly an interesting topic. You'd definitely need a qualified electrician for that kind of job.

How often do you get power cuts? I know someone who set up an elaborate battery inverter system for backup power. When he eventually got a power cut 5 years later it failed as the batteries had died of old age.

With a generator it is likely the petrol will have gone stale and it won't start.

Power cuts are extremely rare in Ireland. However that might not continue to be the case into the future.

With petrol, you definitely need to be rotating it every 6 to 9 months i.e. consuming it in your petrol car (assuming you have one) and then back-filling your petrol containers with new petrol. It's important also to fill the petrol containers to the max capacity e.g. if it's a 10L container, fill up tothe 10L mark. That way, the amount of air in the container is minimised. Otherwise, there can be a problem with water vapour in the air being absorbed into the petrol. You can also get fuel stabilisers for petrol which are claimed to extend the storage lifespan of petrol from ~6 to ~12 months. Although I've seen videos of experiments that suggest that the benefit of stabilisers is only marginal.

However with LPG (butane or propane), you don't have a problem with the fuel going stale.

 

[Tigercubrider]

You may find that because of manufacturing ease, the uk and eu sockets on the generator are common in relation to mouldings and mountings?

personally for my own use I wouldn’t worry about the Schuko

be aware that some electronics Don’t like basic generator power.

 

[ericmark]

Schuko rated at 16 amp and BS1363 at 13 amp so possibly the Schuko will be better?

As to house easy way is a small consumer unit with all the essential supplies, lights, freezer etc. Which plugs in to a supply from main consumer unit. So with a power failure unplug from main consumer unit and plug into generator.

As to two generators, the unit produces DC and the inverter converts this to AC at 50 Hz, so the DC from one generator (slave) is fed into the other (master) as DC so a simple diode stops back feed, the master generators inverter needs to be able to handle 7 kW.

However since the 7 kW can't be drawn from a Schuko socket it leaves the problem of how to connect to house.

 

[plugwash]

Using the generator for portable appliances is fine. Portable appliances made to EU/IEC standards are designed in a way that treats both the line and neutral conductors as potentially live. While the UK has left the EU I don't think there have been any significant changes in electrical standards. 13A plugs do have overcurrent protection in the Line conductor only, but honestly in most countries extension strips often have no overcurrent protection at all.

Feeding an installation opens up more of a can of worms. Small generators vary in their earthing arrangements, some have the output floating, some have the neutral side of the output tied to the "earth" (the frame of the generator and the earth pin of the sockets) , some have some intermediate point (not nessacerally the center) on the output winding tied to the "earth" (the latter is particularly common with dual-voltage generators).

While BS7671 notionally defines neutral as a "live conductor" it doesn't really follow though with the implications of doing so. MCBs and RCBOs normally only monitor the "line" conductor for overcurrents. RCBOs look for imbalances as well as overcurrents, but they still often only have the ability to disconnect the line conductor. I strongly suspect the Irish standards are similar.

I have also heard that some gas boilers won't work when fed from a supply where the Neutral conductor is not at "earth" potential.

So "best practice" when feeding an installation off a generator is to use a generator that supplies the same supply configuration as the grid. This isn't really compatible with using a Schuko plug/socket.

 

[winston1]

I thought Schuko sockets were allowed in Ireland but rarely found these days. Have they been banned?

 

[EFLImpudence]

Portable appliances made to EU/IEC standards are designed in a way that treats both the line and neutral conductors as potentially live.

Not really.

It is simply that whichever way you put in the plug the OPD is still in the Line conductor - and it is alternating current.

 

[plugwash]

Any switching and overcurrent protection devices inside the equipment will end up in a different conductor depending on the supply polarity.

It's up to the device manufacturer to risk-assess that and decide what action to take. They may decide that the upstream overcurrent protection is sufficient to protect against shorts to earth and the internal protection only needs to protect against faults from live to neutral, so it's OK for it to end up in the neutral. They may decide that internal switching is for functional purposes only and therefore it's ok for it to end up in the Neutral.

Or that may decide that double pole switching and/or fusing is required.

 

[EFLImpudence]

Any switching and overcurrent protection devices inside the equipment will end up in a different conductor depending on the supply polarity.

Yes.

It's up to the device manufacturer to risk-assess that and decide what action to take. They may decide that the upstream overcurrent protection is sufficient to protect against shorts to earth and the internal protection only needs to protect against faults from live to neutral, so it's OK for it to end up in the neutral. They may decide that internal switching is for functional purposes only and therefore it's ok for it to end up in the Neutral.

Yes, but they have to do that for places that have non-polar plugs.

They are not going to design separate polar-dependent appliances for places that have pole-specific plugs.

Or that may decide that double pole switching and/or fusing is required.

If that is what they decide because it is necessary then it will be the same for everywhere.

The point is that even with a UK plug, it does not really matter if you wire the plug the other way round - i.e Brown and Blue reversed - The fuse and the circuit OPD will still be in the Line conductor; it will just be Blue instead of Brown.