Can gas pipe develop crack on its own?

[lilystyle]

Hi, I'm hoping someone might be able to answer this question. We recently moved out of a housing association property and have just been informed that (although there had been no smell of gas 24 hours after we moved out on 20th August and we are sure we didn't knock anything) we are to be billed over £180 because:

"This is the information from our "Gas Safe" registered engineers report in bullet points:

1. The engineer attended the empty property on 31st August 2012 in order to carry out a void gas safety check. On entering he found a strong smell of gas.
2. A gas tightness test confirmed that there was an escape of gas on the installation pipe work.
3. The cooker point supply pipe, which was buried in the wall, was exposed and the gas leak was found on the cooker connection point and subsequently repaired.
4. Before each new occupancy, a gas safety check is carried out on the installation pipe work and gas appliances to ensure that they are safe to use and as such, the installation prior to the latest tenant moving in, was safe.
5. Whilst at the property, the neighbour called at the door to report a smell through the party wall in the few days prior to our visit.
6. Conclusion: The gas cooker connection point was knocked by the tenants cooker, be it gas or electric at the time of use, causing a buried joint to crack. This is confirmed because there was no gas leak above tolerance prior to the tenant taking occupancy, there was no reported smell of gas during occupancy, the neighbour could smell gas coming through the wall only after the property had been empty and at the gas safety check 3 days after the tenant moved out there was a strong smell of gas throughout the house."

We are sure this didn't happen, but it would be very helpful to have any suggestions about how else this leak may have occurred.

 

[swbjackson]

It's possible that when you disconnected the cooker you disturbed a joint but if the joint had been correctly made in the first place you would struggle to put enough mechanical force on it to damage it.

They are talking hogwash, tell them that you are not willing to pay for a problem which is not of your doing.

 

[MickyP10]

I'm no gas man but sensing this is one of those you'll have to take on the chin - because there is no answer and no amount of suggestions can influence what happened.

Look on the bright side, no one was killed.

 

[swbjackson]

I'm no gas man but sensing this is one of those you'll have to take on the chin - because there is no answer and no amount of suggestions can influence what happened.

Look on the bright side, no one was killed.

Don't take it on the chin. It is not your fault. They are trying it on.

 

[lilystyle]

Thank you Mike, this is what we feel.

As well as their billing us over £180, their blaming us for a gas leak means they don't have to pay us a £100 incentive.

We have a friend who can testify there was no smell of gas on 21st August, 24 hours after we vacated the property.

What we want now is to compile a list of plausible alternative causes for this alleged gas leak so we can show that they don't have a proper case against us...

 

[FiremanT]

I'm no gas man but sensing this is one of those you'll have to take on the chin - because there is no answer and no amount of suggestions can influence what happened.

Look on the bright side, no one was killed.

Don't take it on the chin. It is not your fault. They are trying it on.

+1

The scenario that they is impossible,unless there was a fault, as jackson suggests. Write to them to ask specifically what the problem was, and how did they arrive at a fee of £180? They were there anyway, and the going rate to INSTALL a cooker is less than £100. How do they justify double for repairing one leak (while in the property anyway)

 

[swbjackson]

If you don't get anywhere with them I will happily repeat what I have posted above on headed paper and sign it for you.

 

[Agile]

Being a libra I always like to take a fair view in the advice that I give.

I would agree that on a soldered copper pipe its quite possible for a tenant to cause a badly made joint to leak inside the wall.

That would only happen using "normal" force to remove a cooker bayonet if the joint was badly made.

Many of the people doing these types of jobs are poorly made and can have cowboy attitudes and SOME would make this all up to get paid more !

To dig out the wall could take 30 minutes extra and to remake the joint anouther 30 minutes then another 30 minutes to reseal with filler. Thats just ONE and a HALF hours of extra time for which an employee is paid about £18 and would be charged out to a customer at about £60.

So there is a question mark about the actual damage itself and a much bigger question mark about the charge!

Tony

 

[Onetap]

Two things come to mind. An existing installation is allowed a small amount of leakage, providing there is no smell of gas. A small gas leak could be dissipated by occupants ventilating the house, opening doors and windows.

If it's unoccupied, you could get a smell of gas that wasn't noticeable before.

Did they state the pressure loss measured during the soundness test?

There was no smell of gas on your last visit and you have a witness. If you'd smelt gas, you'd probably have enough sense to shut off the meter valve.

If the property was left empty, then did you turn the gas off at the meter?

If the gas leak was from the cooker connection point, then this could be a leaking bayonet fitting ( they should seal themselves when the cooker is unplugged). If it was that, it's their defective fitting and not your problem.

If it was the joint connecting the bayonet fitting to the gas pipe, then I'd query whether the gas installation was steel or copper and, if copper, whether there should be a compression joint buried in a wall. If the joint has started leaking as a result of your unplugging the cooker then either the bayonet fitting was inadequately secured and unfit for purpose (their problem) and/or it has become stiff in normal use requiring great force to release it, the result of deterioration and/or a lack of maintenance (their problem).

PS BES have two domestic cooker sockets (0621 and 6043) which are both connected to the gas installation with 1/2" BSP taper threads. Should the threaded joint be buried in a wall? I don't know, hopefully a Gas Safe bloke will tell us.

 

[lilystyle]

we should point out here that we had an electric cooker anyway - it's vaguely possible that the gas connection point might have been lightly nudge in moving the cooker out, but we don't think even this happened.

For this reason, we didn't do anything with the gas metre/valve

We did keep the house very well ventilated while we were there, so yes, there could have been a low level gas leak going on we were unaware of. The check they mention on 31st August was 12 days after we moved out.

Mike you are a star and we will happily threaten them with your headed paper

Shall now email them asking exactly what was leaking (they talk about the leak being both in an exposed, buried pipe AND the gas connector point); what the pipe and connector point were/are made of; how old they were/are; and why the gas pipe wasn't checked after three days of our vacating the property.

Thanks guys

 

[Agile]

You can regardless question the excessive charge!

It seems pretty unlikely that just be casually knocking the gas fitting would make it leak IF it had been properly fitted.

Most HAs require bayonet fittings to be removed and capped off when the property becomes void.

The new occupier has to pay for a new bayonet to be fitted!

Tony

 

[conny]

We have just had to have a 22mm supply fitted to replace the old 15mm. When the lad was bending the pipe to manouvre it past a cupboard it snapped off at the soldered joint, (York fitting I think they are called). Looking at the end of the pipe that came out of the joint it was easy to see that the end of the pipe only went in as far as the solder ring inside. It did not go past the ring and butt up to the internal shoulder. Possibly this is the scenario in your case.

 

[gas112]

Did you leave the gas turned on at meter when you vacated or did you turn it off.
If you turned it off at maintap then they are lying through there teeth

 

[lilystyle]

We - unfortunately - did leave the gas on at the meter - it had been on when we moved in : the HA guy showed us how to operate the hot water/heating from the boiler, but hadn't said anything about needing to turn the supply on or off.

 

[Nige F]

We have a friend who can testify there was no smell of gas on 21st August, 24 hours after we vacated the property.

...

Will they sign an affidavit ?