Can gas pipe develop crack on its own?

[baxiengineer]

Well that is a good point but as read it they stated it as a cooker connection point so I assume that is what they meant. These have to be fixed securely

 

[ianmcd]

well as you didnt interefere with any connection point or fitting then why would you be in any way responsible for said connection, even if removing your Electric cooker did affect this fitting you have no responsibility whatsoever for this fitting, whoever removed the gas cooker and made the final connection i.e. plugging the pipe is responsible to make sure that the pipe and fitting will not be prone to damage

 

[lilystyle]

Thank you for this, we are working on this bit of our (very long) complaint/appeal letter to the line manager at the moment.



Have so far got:

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Cooker connection points CANNOT be damaged by being knocked. If it was this easy for them to form dangerous gas leaks, they would never be permitted under UK law. In fact, under UK law, if they are secured as insecurely as the Gas Safe engineer claims this one was, they are illegal, and your company liable. We are now considering taking legal action against you for having been exposed to this danger whilst resident there.

The several qualified heating engineers, including a Gas Safe registered one, that we have consulted, unanimously agree that the fittings could not have been damaged to cause the gas leak, if they had been correctly fixed, without massive force having been exerted that would have significantly damaged the wall. (Appendix 2)
Is it possible to see photos of the wall the pipe was attached to prior to the engineer 'breaking it out'?

Can you produce evidence of any damage to the fittings/pipe work prior to the wall being broken out?

/////////////////////////////

Is everything we've written, in your oppinions, technically correct? As always, feedback highly valued/appreciated

 

[lilystyle]

Thank you for this, we are working on this bit of our (very long) complaint/appeal letter to the line manager at the moment.



Have so far got:

/////////////////////////////

Cooker connection points CANNOT be damaged by being knocked. If it was this easy for them to form dangerous gas leaks, they would never be permitted under UK law. In fact, under UK law, if they are secured as insecurely as the Gas Safe engineer implies this one was, they are illegal, and your company liable. We are now considering taking legal action against you for having been exposed to this danger whilst resident there.

The several qualified heating engineers, including a Gas Safe registered one, that we have consulted, unanimously agree that the fittings could not have been damaged to cause the gas leak, if they had been correctly fixed, without massive force having been exerted that would have significantly damaged the wall. (Appendix 2)
Is it possible to see photos of the wall the pipe was attached to prior to the engineer 'breaking it out'?

Can you produce evidence of any damage to the fittings/pipe work prior to the wall being broken out?

/////////////////////////////

Is everything we've written, in your oppinions, technically correct? As always, feedback highly valued/appreciated

 

[Agile]

I certainly do not recommend you threatening them with legal action.

It could never succeed anyway. But you did not suffer any damages either.

It would just get their hassels up.

What you should also be doing is to ask for a copy of the contractors invoice and ask about their basis of charging.

Remember we might trap them here if they expect you to pay for the whole visit costs when they only came to check the safety on the owner's behalf.

Tony

 

[calorific]

You could try asking them for the photographic evidence within the inventory that presumably (and by law) they made and had you sign, alongside thier countersigning that clearly show the undamaged fitting when you moved in and the same damaged fitting after you left, prior to it being repaired.

 

[Onetap]

The evidence is in the reply, they say an end feed fitting with a half inch female iron connector.There is no mention of a back plate elbo which is the legal fitting.So in effect they have stated that the incorrect fitting was used.

In the letter on P 2 it stated that; "The leak was on a horizontal short length of 15mm copper tube, which protruded out through the render and plaster of the kitchen wall, behind the cooker position. The fittings at either end of the short pipe length were leaking. The first being the 1/2" FI x 15mm EF connection, and the second being a 15mm solder ring elbow at the other end of that pipe."

There was no back plate elbow because the pipe came out of the wall, rather than being surface mounted.

It may be that the wall was a stud partition (plasterboard on 3 x 2" timbers) with the gas pipes inside the wall void; this could account for the smell of gas being spread throughout the house, instead of being concentrated in the kitchen.

If it had been a solid wall, I'd have expected the gas would have been escaping only into the kitchen only and the leak could have been found in 5 minutes with a sniffer.

I doubt that a properly made soldered joint could be broken before the pipe.

 

[lilystyle]

OK - have removed the legal action threat and put in:

????? informed us, after we showed him the inventory photos we had taken, that ?????? had a comprehensive collection of photos detailing the entire house that would be available for us to see should we be accused of having damaged anything after moving out. Can we, therefore, please see all photos you have showing the gas cooker supply pipe?

/////////////////////

Have also included, further on in the letter:

We would also at this point like to query whether the invoice for £187.50 includes the cost of the post vacating gas check, which we certainly should not be expected to pay for.

///////////////////

How's it sounding?

BTW would any of you guys object to us saying we've been getting advice from DIYnot.com? Wouldn't want to include this if any of you didn't want us to

 

[lilystyle]

Onetap: the walls in the house, as far as I checked them, seemed to be made of concrete (couldn't get a drawing pin in anywhere) - the cooker supply pipe was/is attached to the wall that divides the house from the neighbour's one - so unlikely to be a hollow partition wall. So looking like it should have been obvious where the leak came from?

 

[ianmcd]

I would go with.

Without Prejudice

Thank you for your recent informed reply , however I have now been advised that if an engineer/contractor carrying out work on your behalf in the afore mentioned premises, left a situation that I could cause damage to a gas fitting by simply removing an electric cooker then it is my informed opinion that the works carried out by your engineer/contractor contravene the Gas safety installation and use regulations (GSIUR1998) and therefore will vigorously challenge your refusal to refund my £100 bond, I do not and will not accept that I could have caused any escape of gas ,if any alleged escape of gas did occur then it could not in any way be accredited to myself

 

[lilystyle]

We like: especially the reference to GSIUR1998

Will need to mull over how threatening or not to be though - our letter did start:

We are extremely dissatisfied that ????? has found us guilty without properly listening to, or at least responding to our account of events. It appears that Ms Allen has entirely based her conclusions on the information given in the report by the Gas Safe engineer you employed without making any further enquiries to verify his claims. We appreciate that you have been taking the report given by this Gas Safe engineer as evidence, but in having taken advice from other qualified heating engineers, including a Gas Safe registered one, who have studied the report provided by Ms Allen, we maintain that we can not be held responsible for the gas leak for the following reasons: (blah blah blah)

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Think we'll now include your suggestion before that - see how it fits

 

[ianmcd]

I would recommend you go with mine , they are a housing association and will put this through their legal team, dont get involved with opinions just stick to the facts and they will back down, dont elaborate dont discuss just tell them how it is

Ian

 

[Agile]

We would also at this point like to query whether the invoice for £187.50 includes the cost of the post vacating gas check, which we certainly should not be expected to pay for.

You dont want to catch them out trying to get you to pay for the vacating check?

I would say that you are giving away one of your possible few trump cards! You would never make a barrister!

You want a copy of their invoice!!!

Tony

 

[Agile]

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[Agile]

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