Can I have a Gas Certificate issued by a different plumber?

[Sapphira]

In May 2009 I had a couple of Corgi registered plumbers install a new combination condensing boiler and new radiators in my flat. This installation took place over a weekend in their ‘own time’ as they were both employed during the day. All appeared well and satisfactory when they left. And before giving them the rest of the payment I asked about the Gas Certificate and they promised to post it to me that week.

A day or so later I had to ask them to come back as there was no heating. They came that same evening and did some investigating but couldn’t fathom what was wrong and so returned the following evening. I could tell by their whispering and polite smiling that they themselves were mystified by the problem.

I’m afraid I was a bit over polite myself by not wishing to appear silly and interfering and only asked them to assure me that I would receive the Gas Certificate when they finished as I was due to put my flat on the market the next year.

After bringing life back to the heating they left and again promised to forward the certificate to me. This time I notice, albeit, too late that the user manual and all other paper work had disappeared.

Anxious to chase up the certificate, I phoned these guys several times until I realised that they were never going to pick up my call.

The heating is working well but I am suspicious that they have covered up a botched job. Two pipes that had originally run parallel before their return visit are now criss crossed!!

The lead plumber was a contact given to me by someone I know but who is not actually a friend and who is now so embarrassed about the introduction he has washed his hands of the whole issue. So, I have no further way to get hold of these ‘monkeys’!

Could someone please advice me if I can ask another plumber to issue a certificate and roughly how much this would cost.

And, is this the certificate that I need to produce when I find a buyer for my property which is now on the market.

I do indeed feel a bit of a fool and easy pickings but I didn’t really think anything could go wrong when they knew that they would have to provide me with an official document which would have to be registered with and arrive via Corgi.

I'd be so grateful for some help here!

Saph

 

[Agile]

I am surprised that alarm bells did not ring when you had them working at the weekend when they were employed elsewhere.

That implies that they were NOT gas registered to do the installation as they are only registered under their employer's number when doing the employer's work. Presumably you have their name and addresses so all you need to do is to send them a letter asking them for the Certificate! You should NOT have paid until they gave you the certificate!

If you dont receive it then report them to Gas Safe and advise them of the names and addresses and they will investigate the apparent case of illegal installation and come and inspect the situation.

Presumably also you paid them with a cheque and noted the payees name? I expect your bank can trace which account the cheque was paid into.

I am one of the few RGIs who will consider the possibility of reinstalling a boiler to enable me to legitimately issue a Certificate. Only the person who actually installs the boiler can issue a certificate.

An employee of Eaga did a boiler installation on the side and then issued a certificate in their employers name! Pity they fitted it without a flue seal that made it dangerous but the owner having got a cheap job refused to report him. That kind of thing is what Gas-Safe should be dealing with but they only act on the property owner's instructions.

Tony

 

[Sapphira]

Thanks for your reply, Agile.

No, nothing suspicious occured to me because he said he would purchase all the equipment with his trade card. I really thought that is was an individual's personal Corgi registered qualifications that authorised them to carry out the work. And that if they were registered with Corgi then they could arrange for a certificate to be issued. I had no reason to doubt him.

In retrospect, I do feel very foolish. I have never had to deal with such issues alone until now, my late husband handled this side of things. I am new to all this.

I don't feel brave enough to contact Corgi as I do not have an address for him as I contacted him on his mobile. I suppose I shall have to put this down to experience and cut my losses.

Do you think another plumber would be able to issue me with a certificate and what would it cost me?

I am in despair now!

Thanks

Saph

 

[Agile]

I still think that you should report them to Gas Safe who now do the registration. Even just a description and mobile number will help them.

You did not say anything about the cheque. Does that mean that you paid them cash without any receipt?

If you telephoned me with some details of the boiler etc. then I would tell you how much we would charge.

Others will probably do it far cheaper because they are less concerned about doing it properly within the rules.

Tony

 

[AlanE]

Sapphira you will never get another installer to sign off these peoples work.

To sell your house simplist way would be to contact another installer and ask them to carryout a 'Householders Gas Safety Inspection' which will get you a current safety certificate for the property to give to your prospective purchaser.

The only thing not then covered is notification of installation to building control. Is that worth it? It's just a bit of paper from GasSafe saying the INSTALLER of the installation has said it is safe.

You can always arrange with GasSafe to call and inspect the installation. Don't know if they would issue any certificate at that time - doubt it.

 

[Sapphira]

Agile and Alan E, thank you both for your help and advice.

I declined answering the 'cheque' question because - yes, you got it, I paid cash!

I agree that the guys need to be reported.

I thought I had more sense than to fall for such a scam. I was just so grateful that two professionals had the time to do such a small job for me at such short notice.

I truly thought they had the authority to purchase the materials, install the equipment and certify the finished product.

Perhaps, I should call GasSafe tomorrow and see what they recommend.

I'll keep you posted.

Meanwhile - to anyone out there who suspects that something may be too good to be true! IT PROBABLY IS!!!! Beware!!

Thanks again

Saph

 

[expertgasman]

. Presumably you have their name and addresses so all you need to do is to send them a letter asking them for the Certificate! You should NOT have paid until they gave you the certificate!



The fitters DON'T issue the cert, as you well know!

Would you be willing to wait for a few grand utill the client SAY'S they've received the ticket? I wouldn't.

 

[samthediyman]

it's true. when a gas appliance gets registered it takes around 2 weeks for the cert to arrive for the gas safe register. I cannot wait for payment that long either.

 

[Boilerman2]

Saph
"If something seems too good to be true it probalbly is" -this is incorrect
it should read "DEFINATELY is"!
Yours is a sorry but not unusual tale the sad fact is the majority of customers take trades people on their word and 95% of Tradespeople are caring, honest and take pride in doing it right.....then there are the other 5%....sadly it was one of thoses you met!
I really do feel sorry for your predicament

 

[bengasman]

If the system works fine, all should be well. It wouldn't hurt to get a good RGI in to service the system, and a thorough checkout whilst he is there.
Don't worry about the certificate, it was a pointless exercise and is now being phased out; nobody is interested in them.

 

[donny25]

Hi,

I don't mean to hi-jack the thread, but I'm in a similar position to OP in that I've had a new central heating system installed, including a combi boiler. The exception is that I have full details of the installer, including his gas safe number.

Unfortunately we didn't part on the best of terms, and even though he is fully paid up, he hasn't registered the installation. Gas safe tell me they don't have any authority to chase him, but will send someone out to check the installation, however they won't issue a cert but rather give me a copy of their report..

I notice Bengasman says the certs are being phased out, but if i wanted to sell my house, will this gas safe check be enough?

I've also read in the post that another gas safe engineer will not sign off someone elses work, which is fair enough, but will they at least issue a cert to say everything looks ok?

 

[Agile]

I will consider reinstalling a boiler so that I can then notify it to Building Control which is required because fitting boilers is a controlled activity. We do that through a notifying organisation like Gas Safe or NICEIC etc. that gives you a posted certificate that the boiler was installed by a registered installer.

Any RGI can check the safety and issue a Safety Certificate but that does not address the Building Control issue.

If selling what you are asked to provide will depend on the buyers solicitor.

I know of one sale which failed because the seller could not produce a FENSA certificate for some new windows.

Tony

 

[bengasman]

I notice Bengasman says the certs are being phased out, but if i wanted to sell my house, will this gas safe check be enough?

That depends entirely on the lawyer. Unfortanetly, lost of them don't know what they are on about ( believe it or not ) and as they are rather confused, they ask for anything and everything just to make sure they've got it all.

Fact: There is no legal requirement to produce any gas certificate whatsoever for the sale of a house.

Those that do insist on a cert will usually accept a landlord certificate because......... they are clueless.

 

[Agile]

There is no legal requirement for ANY certificates when a house is bought.

BUT its a standard purchasors enquiry about any work which requires notification to building control because not advising BC is punishable by very heavy penalties.

The owner has that responsibility! I can only assume that any new owner continues to have that liability.

Tony

 

[donny25]

Thanks for the replies.

...
I know of one sale which failed because the seller could not produce a FENSA certificate for some new windows.

Tony

Thats another issue I had those replaced as well months ago, and the fitter was/is a top guy who did an excellent job, however, no cert. He's also registered, but just hasn't appeared to have got round to filling in the necessary online stuff. When I call him he's apologetic, and says he'll get right on it, but nothing yet.

As a layman, I find this whole certificate thing a joke. I understand they are there for a reason, but seeing as they are viewed as being so important when selling, the installer should be able to give you something at the time you hand over the cash.