Can I take a spur from this...
- Thread starter gordon.hunter
- Start date
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Don't know if it's legal but that's exactly what I have - a double socket in one bedroom spurred off of another double socket exactly opposite in the other bedroom.
How old is that wiring?
How old is that wiring?
Yes, in all likelihood.....assuming thats a socket on a ring final circuit, or a radial circuit. You need to confirm that first.
You could make the new socket part of the ring if there's enough slack in one of the cables to get to the new socket.
You could make the new socket part of the ring if there's enough slack in one of the cables to get to the new socket.
As Simon says if its the ring then its best to incorporate the new socket into the ring. If there's not enough slack you could extend the cable with something like wago connectors. If you spur from it then you should use a fused spur. Also sleeve those earth wires (untwist too if extending the ring), make sure those rubber grommets are secured on that back box so the cables don't get damaged. Also might want to add a piece of earth wire between the sockets earth terminal and back box earth terminal (assuming it has one).
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It would be a good idea to locate it higher up too. When a plug is inserted in a socket that low, it could easily be kicked or bashed with a vacuum cleaner. In your case, the existing socket looks to be so close to the floor that it appears that it would be a tight fit to get a plug with thick cable plugged in. When new houses are constructed, sockets have to be no less than 450mm from the floor, although this may have more to do with accessibility than electrical safety. However, even before the legislation, sockets were usually about 200 to 300mm above the floor for safety.
Does it have to be a fused spur or is an unfused (ie. perfectly normal) socket OK?
And assuming you have had no issues it seems that what I am planning to do shall be fine also.
As regards age of wiring - no idea.
It is the old colours so at least pre 2004 (possibly up to 2006 when the transition took place between colour changes for wiring).
The house was built in 1938 but the socket is in a dormer which certainly was not built in 1938.
No idea really. Impossible to tell. Old enough that people thought it was a good idea to put sockets on skirting boards.
I found the attached image on B&Q. Its exactly my scenario.
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Not sure if its a "socket on a ring final circuit" or "radial circuit"?
How would I go about confirming that?
If there has ever been an electrical inspection, the paperwork will say what sort of circuits you have.
Otherwise post a photo of the consumer unit. It's easy to tell from looking inside the CU, but we might be able to make a good guess from the outside.
Ring is most likely.
If you met someone who said he drives a car with no airbags and doesn't wear a seat belt, and has had no issues, would you plan to do the same because you'll be fine?
If the socket is protected by a 15/16 or 20 amp fuse or breaker then spur off in 2.5 mm2 cable.
If the socket is protected by a 30/32 amp fuse or breaker it may be a ring. The picture isn't clear enough to tell us the cable size, but 2.5 mm2 or imperial equivalent is likely.
In this case, turn off the power. Check the socket circuit is definitely turned off. Best turn off at the main position. Having established it's dead, remove socket and untwist wires. Then, with a continuity tester, see if there is continuity between L and L, N and N, and E and E. This will give a reasonable indication if the circuit is a ring, and if so, use 2.5 mm2 to spur off this socket.
Use eart sleeving on all bare wires. Avoid twisting wires together.
As regards to the age of the wiring, it's probably between 45 and 50 years old.
If the socket is protected by a 30/32 amp fuse or breaker it may be a ring. The picture isn't clear enough to tell us the cable size, but 2.5 mm2 or imperial equivalent is likely.
In this case, turn off the power. Check the socket circuit is definitely turned off. Best turn off at the main position. Having established it's dead, remove socket and untwist wires. Then, with a continuity tester, see if there is continuity between L and L, N and N, and E and E. This will give a reasonable indication if the circuit is a ring, and if so, use 2.5 mm2 to spur off this socket.
Use eart sleeving on all bare wires. Avoid twisting wires together.
As regards to the age of the wiring, it's probably between 45 and 50 years old.
Its quite a bit before 2004, similar to what sparkright said below.... very eary 1970s or just before.
Its pre metrication. Thats imperial sized cable. So no later than 71/72 ish. The conductors are also not tinned which means its not much before this. The tinning was to stop chemical attack from the insulation from when it was VIR. It carried on a bit after the introduction of PVC in the 1960s, but then was phased out.
No earth sleeving either, the requirement came in the 60s, but sometimes the changes took a while to filter down to those wiring houses.
The box also has two fixing tabs along the top and two at the bottom, to suit some earlier designs of 13A sockets which were around in the 60s
I am shocked to hear the wiring may be this old.
I checked the consumer unit and it is protected by a Wylex NHXB32 MCB
http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/residential-mcbs/7142126/
I spurred off with a 2.5mm cable.
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