Hi there.. i just need some advise form someone who knows what they are on about. Im a general builder but mainly fit bathrooms for a living I get a few jobs where i have to do minor electrical changes eg fit low voltage light, extractor fans, change light switches and now to touch anything electrical i need to be Part P qualified? Iv been trying to go through train to gain to go through a course to get this qualification (but they are rubbish and have messed it all up). Iv been reading so many different thing on the internet that i would need to sit a 3 year C&G course to even qualify to sit the Part P and then on the NICEIC site they say you just need to have experience and no qualifications? iv been involved with electrics for 6 years now, i know i don’t know everything but I have hands on experience and have brought various NICEIC books and have been studying them aswell ? i don’t want to pay out loads of money for me to not pass this PART P course? For example I brought a guide off of ebay and it had an example test paper, reading through I had no idea what it was on about asking me, questions on different BS EN regs? Can someone help me how sat this course and the sort of criteria in the course
Can someone please give me some advise
- Thread starter dan comer
- Start date
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there's no such thing as a part P qualification
the "part P" pourses are either a Domestic installer course, which gives the basics that a plumber or kitchen fitter etc need to do basic electrics, or are an introduction to part P to familiarise people with the requirements of the new regulation...
you don't need qualifications at all to be part P registered, just to be able to prove that you are competent to do the work and test as aporopriate..
the "part P" pourses are either a Domestic installer course, which gives the basics that a plumber or kitchen fitter etc need to do basic electrics, or are an introduction to part P to familiarise people with the requirements of the new regulation...
you don't need qualifications at all to be part P registered, just to be able to prove that you are competent to do the work and test as aporopriate..
Because you do notifiable works in wet areas, kitchens, you do need to keep to the rules.
There's a number of things you can do:-
Train for a week (£950), pass a DISQ course and register with a scheme provider. NICEIC is one of a band offering to take your money, do on site assessments (to make sure your up to standard) and process notifiable against part P with your local council that is covered by the area of work site.
You will then require yearly scheme membership (£450) and test tools to Part P / 16th edition test standards (£400). Your also need to be insurance covered, as a one man band mines £145 for £5m
or
Fill in the forms and ask your local council building control (LBC) to inspect and test your work. This requires fee's paid to the LBC for 1st fix, 2nd fix and test / inspection. Varies from £100 to much more.
or
You phone up your local electrician that holds the qualification and ask him to do the job. Under Part P you can only certify your own work.
If the electrician and you can plan visits and firm up routes, box positions, cable layouts, demand etc there is no reason why you or one of you boys couldn't do the 1st fix and commission the sparks to do 2nd fix and test / certification.
The rules on self certification of Part P allow me to employ a person and oversee them do work that is very basic. The cable laying, the back box chopping / setting, the clipping, capping, route busting (the whole base wire). So I see no difference in using you or your team, as long as you accept the odd charge for visiting the job once or twice while doing the 1st fix.
That would work out cheaper than getting a sparks to do all works, avoid you having to train / register with a scheme and keep you clear of hassles such as insurance, test equipment and calibration and faults
(as always I'll await some banter on self cert work that has, in part, had the base stuff done by a 3rd party)
There's a number of things you can do:-
Train for a week (£950), pass a DISQ course and register with a scheme provider. NICEIC is one of a band offering to take your money, do on site assessments (to make sure your up to standard) and process notifiable against part P with your local council that is covered by the area of work site.
You will then require yearly scheme membership (£450) and test tools to Part P / 16th edition test standards (£400). Your also need to be insurance covered, as a one man band mines £145 for £5m
or
Fill in the forms and ask your local council building control (LBC) to inspect and test your work. This requires fee's paid to the LBC for 1st fix, 2nd fix and test / inspection. Varies from £100 to much more.
or
You phone up your local electrician that holds the qualification and ask him to do the job. Under Part P you can only certify your own work.
If the electrician and you can plan visits and firm up routes, box positions, cable layouts, demand etc there is no reason why you or one of you boys couldn't do the 1st fix and commission the sparks to do 2nd fix and test / certification.
The rules on self certification of Part P allow me to employ a person and oversee them do work that is very basic. The cable laying, the back box chopping / setting, the clipping, capping, route busting (the whole base wire). So I see no difference in using you or your team, as long as you accept the odd charge for visiting the job once or twice while doing the 1st fix.
That would work out cheaper than getting a sparks to do all works, avoid you having to train / register with a scheme and keep you clear of hassles such as insurance, test equipment and calibration and faults
(as always I'll await some banter on self cert work that has, in part, had the base stuff done by a 3rd party)
following on from the comments
the very scary thing about this part p domestic installer tag is that you can take a 5day course blag your way through it with no electrical backgrounding at all and instantly become as qualified as a 2nd year 2330 college trained sparks, something not quite right somewhere me thinks.
the very scary thing about this part p domestic installer tag is that you can take a 5day course blag your way through it with no electrical backgrounding at all and instantly become as qualified as a 2nd year 2330 college trained sparks, something not quite right somewhere me thinks.
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pdenni said:
Well, that's not true at all, is it?
Part P requires that 'reasonable provision' for safety is applied to all electrical work in dwellings. The easiest way of demonstrating your 'reasonable provision' is to work to the IEE regs.
The Building Regulations do not specify who can and who cannot do the work - whatever type of work it is. They do, however specify two routes to compliance.
Route A is the bog-standard, been-doing-it-like-this-for-years, building notice.
Route B is the bit you object to, where practitioners assessed as competent to do so, test and certify their own work and notify LABC retrospectively.
The 5-day course is there purely to provide a very basic paper qualification as a minimum requirement for entry onto a competent persons scheme. They still have to undergo on-site assessment.
All that the kitchen fitters, chippies, plumbers, gas fitters etc who so-register are doing is raising their game, learning more than they knew before, stepping up to be assessed and then (after considerable effort and expense on their part) carrying on doing exactly what they did before but this time a lot more safely.
You may have heard rumours, buzzes, theories, etc that such people are out touting for work as 'electricians' but in my experience it just ain't so. Actually, in my experience some fully qualified electricians find the DISQ course quite taxing and most fully qualified electricians are appallingly poor when it comes to testing.
dingbat
dont get me wrong i understand what you are saying but it is true that a part p pass is equivilent to cand g 2330, nic has clarified this 2 me as you need either one to join them as minimum requirement, although candg 2330 part2 is only valid with them for 1 year they give you a years grace to get your 3rd year candg.Whereas your joined with no grace period via part p course route
Ive had many conversations with college lecturers who are well annoyed that someone so inexperianced could do the part p course and be on the same level as a cand g trained sparks, the response i get from the lecturers is that getting trained the college route is always the best way.
dont get me wrong i understand what you are saying but it is true that a part p pass is equivilent to cand g 2330, nic has clarified this 2 me as you need either one to join them as minimum requirement, although candg 2330 part2 is only valid with them for 1 year they give you a years grace to get your 3rd year candg.Whereas your joined with no grace period via part p course route
Ive had many conversations with college lecturers who are well annoyed that someone so inexperianced could do the part p course and be on the same level as a cand g trained sparks, the response i get from the lecturers is that getting trained the college route is always the best way.
No. You're still confusing different things. (And so are the college lecturers who, probably being ex-sparks themselves, are reading Part P the wrong way round) So, I'll try again...
The 2330 is a career course in electrical installation. It covers many things that a domestic spark will never need to know, but is a pre-requisite for anybody wishing to be taken on as an 'electrician', in a recognised sense, such as defined by JIB. Somebody passing 2330 - especially a youngster - would probably still be a long way from being ready to work unsupervised.
Part P has nothing whatsoever to say about the qualifications required to do the job. It is concerned only with standards. One of the ways of meeting the requirements is to belong to a 'competent persons' scheme.
The majority of electrical work in dwellings has been done, for many, many years by non-electricians and there has never been any requirement for any qualifications. In fact there are still no qualifications required to carry out such work.
However, the cost of prior notification to building control makes legal electrical work in dwellings a prohibitively expensive business, hence self-certification (exactly the same as for window installation, etc.)
The government has laid down requirements for entry to such schemes, one of them being the possession of an electrical installation qualification which meets certain minimal levels of knowledge... two courses have arisen in response to this requirement - the EAL2 course and the DISQ course. These are assessed to be at national level II (intermediate GNVQ) the same level as 2330 year 2, based on course content.
Neither of these courses pretend to create instant 'electricians'; they simply meet a need. They don't compete with the 2330; they simply equip people who have sometimes been doing electrical work for decades, with the minimum piece of paper they need to apply for entry to such a scheme.
They still need to satisfy an assessor that they can do 'workmanlike' installations and that they can inspect, test and certify their work. I very much doubt that a second-year 2330 candidate would be capable of doing this. (When I did the 2360, testing was covered in very little detail and with no practical element.)
So, as I said, different things. A DISQ course attendee is generally spending a lot of money to be able to continue doing what he's always done, but finally coming under some regulation. The majority of 2330 candidates are kids, years away from having any clue about anything, let-alone electrics, but, with the right support some of them may one day become useful, all-round electricians. (Ask Adam about his college colleagues.)
So, a DISQ course attendee will be way ahead of most year 2 2330 students as far as practical work is concerned. He will certainly have more practical experience of testing and generally be a more mature person. The fact that he's put himself forward (and paid for it himself) means that he's much more likely to take the whole business seriously. Thinking about it from this perspective you could argue that an average year 2 2330 student is actually less likely to be ready to self-certify.
The right way to train is the way that produces the right balance of skills, knowledge and experience. The way colleges are funded has seriously compromised their ability to deliver these desirable outcomes and some colleges do a very poor job indeed. The kind of person who pays to attend a DISQ course is far more likely to be committed to doing it right than a college student who is there for all the wrong reasons.
If you are a mature college student, who wants to become a well-educated and skilled electrician then good luck to you. But realise that you not are the person that course is aimed at.
The 2330 is a career course in electrical installation. It covers many things that a domestic spark will never need to know, but is a pre-requisite for anybody wishing to be taken on as an 'electrician', in a recognised sense, such as defined by JIB. Somebody passing 2330 - especially a youngster - would probably still be a long way from being ready to work unsupervised.
Part P has nothing whatsoever to say about the qualifications required to do the job. It is concerned only with standards. One of the ways of meeting the requirements is to belong to a 'competent persons' scheme.
The majority of electrical work in dwellings has been done, for many, many years by non-electricians and there has never been any requirement for any qualifications. In fact there are still no qualifications required to carry out such work.
However, the cost of prior notification to building control makes legal electrical work in dwellings a prohibitively expensive business, hence self-certification (exactly the same as for window installation, etc.)
The government has laid down requirements for entry to such schemes, one of them being the possession of an electrical installation qualification which meets certain minimal levels of knowledge... two courses have arisen in response to this requirement - the EAL2 course and the DISQ course. These are assessed to be at national level II (intermediate GNVQ) the same level as 2330 year 2, based on course content.
Neither of these courses pretend to create instant 'electricians'; they simply meet a need. They don't compete with the 2330; they simply equip people who have sometimes been doing electrical work for decades, with the minimum piece of paper they need to apply for entry to such a scheme.
They still need to satisfy an assessor that they can do 'workmanlike' installations and that they can inspect, test and certify their work. I very much doubt that a second-year 2330 candidate would be capable of doing this. (When I did the 2360, testing was covered in very little detail and with no practical element.)
So, as I said, different things. A DISQ course attendee is generally spending a lot of money to be able to continue doing what he's always done, but finally coming under some regulation. The majority of 2330 candidates are kids, years away from having any clue about anything, let-alone electrics, but, with the right support some of them may one day become useful, all-round electricians. (Ask Adam about his college colleagues.)
So, a DISQ course attendee will be way ahead of most year 2 2330 students as far as practical work is concerned. He will certainly have more practical experience of testing and generally be a more mature person. The fact that he's put himself forward (and paid for it himself) means that he's much more likely to take the whole business seriously. Thinking about it from this perspective you could argue that an average year 2 2330 student is actually less likely to be ready to self-certify.
The right way to train is the way that produces the right balance of skills, knowledge and experience. The way colleges are funded has seriously compromised their ability to deliver these desirable outcomes and some colleges do a very poor job indeed. The kind of person who pays to attend a DISQ course is far more likely to be committed to doing it right than a college student who is there for all the wrong reasons.
If you are a mature college student, who wants to become a well-educated and skilled electrician then good luck to you. But realise that you not are the person that course is aimed at.
Ok so i think im going to go thought it one of the right ways? this train to gain scheme will put me thought the city and guilds course for free? but is it worth it? cause from what dingbat has said in his last reply, i could be better off just going into one of these DISQ course? (il have to find out about the DISQ courses) ... what course is more worth while to go on?
can i just say i have never carried out test on electrical installations before and don’t have any instruments? so would this DISQ course teach me how to test circuits and use the equipment, or would it be for people with more experience than me? i want to learn before i go in for the Part P course, cause i know i don’t know everything but would like to go in knowing as much as possible.. so i am more confident i know what im doing. I understand i cant learn everything in 10 minuets... what course is more worth while to go on?
can i just say i have never carried out test on electrical installations before and don’t have any instruments? so would this DISQ course teach me how to test circuits and use the equipment, or would it be for people with more experience than me? i want to learn before i go in for the Part P course, cause i know i don’t know everything but would like to go in knowing as much as possible.. so i am more confident i know what im doing. I understand i cant learn everything in 10 minuets... what course is more worth while to go on?
Hi Dan,
As someone who did the EAL course last year, and is now just starting to tip my toe in the water and do jobs, I can offer the following based on my experience.
The course is intensive, but mostly about the regulatory side of the business. In fact our instructor deliberately made sure we did more practical testing than required, but the test at the end was entirely about knowing the regs (and it wasn't an open book).
However, I was prepared to put in the work myself reading and practising until I felt confident on the testing side and applied for registration with the NICEIC. The on site assessment was then quite heavily on the testing aspect.
For what you are doing, I would recommend an EAL or DISQ course, but my local training centre did a weekend 'taster' course first which dealt a lot more with the practical electrical stuff you should know and that may be a help.
Then if you wanted, the 2391 (testing) would be a good next target, and if you wanted to for completeness (Though the NICEIC have not said I will need to do it) the 2381.
At the end of the day, the most important thing is do you feel competent to carry out electrical work and sign your name to a document that makes you legally responsible for that. If so, then exactly what you have on a piece of paper is less important than the quality of your work, and the ability to turn away jobs or seek advice when you don't know the answers.
Gavin
As someone who did the EAL course last year, and is now just starting to tip my toe in the water and do jobs, I can offer the following based on my experience.
The course is intensive, but mostly about the regulatory side of the business. In fact our instructor deliberately made sure we did more practical testing than required, but the test at the end was entirely about knowing the regs (and it wasn't an open book).
However, I was prepared to put in the work myself reading and practising until I felt confident on the testing side and applied for registration with the NICEIC. The on site assessment was then quite heavily on the testing aspect.
For what you are doing, I would recommend an EAL or DISQ course, but my local training centre did a weekend 'taster' course first which dealt a lot more with the practical electrical stuff you should know and that may be a help.
Then if you wanted, the 2391 (testing) would be a good next target, and if you wanted to for completeness (Though the NICEIC have not said I will need to do it) the 2381.
At the end of the day, the most important thing is do you feel competent to carry out electrical work and sign your name to a document that makes you legally responsible for that. If so, then exactly what you have on a piece of paper is less important than the quality of your work, and the ability to turn away jobs or seek advice when you don't know the answers.
Gavin
hi
i work delivering both the EAL and NIC DISQ courses in manchester...
the only one to go for is the DISQ....just one 60 question multi-choice paper and a whole week to learn the important bits...
EAL is 17 paper exams and(if memory serves me) 14 little daft practical exams- this does not leave much time for the stuff you need, for instance module 7 is I&T- it is allowed ONE day
i would like to applaud dingbats balanced and fair views, there is a lot of hysteria about "5 day wonders"
i work delivering both the EAL and NIC DISQ courses in manchester...
the only one to go for is the DISQ....just one 60 question multi-choice paper and a whole week to learn the important bits...
EAL is 17 paper exams and(if memory serves me) 14 little daft practical exams- this does not leave much time for the stuff you need, for instance module 7 is I&T- it is allowed ONE day
i would like to applaud dingbats balanced and fair views, there is a lot of hysteria about "5 day wonders"
Hallo. After readin this post im a bit confused and would really appreciate some help. I work in telecoms at the mo , i cant c myself doin it all my life im 27 i have a lot of interest in electrics. I have a bit of knowledge gained of short courses etc but i plan to do gain some q's. I have just completed my hnc in electric and electronic eng. Im not in the position to give up work to train full time i planned to do the c and g home study and practical sessions in 3 day blocks through a company called olci . Im thinkin in the event of redundancy i will be qualified in a trade . Is the c g 2330 the best route for me. Cheers ste
partpdoctor said:
Good evening Alan. I've just been talking to a mutual acquaintance in the training world about your book.
Dingbat
thanks for your indepth explanation of part p most enlightning, im currently just finishing my 2nd year 2330 after carrying out electrical work for many years i thought it was time 2 get some qualifications, the course though is set quite heavily on testing and carrying out your practicle assesments, for someone like me who is experianced it just puts the finishing pieces on your career choice.
I find it frustrating that the powers that be cant put part p info in aformat that cannot be misconstrude and everybody knows what they can or cant do.
thanks for your indepth explanation of part p most enlightning, im currently just finishing my 2nd year 2330 after carrying out electrical work for many years i thought it was time 2 get some qualifications, the course though is set quite heavily on testing and carrying out your practicle assesments, for someone like me who is experianced it just puts the finishing pieces on your career choice.
I find it frustrating that the powers that be cant put part p info in aformat that cannot be misconstrude and everybody knows what they can or cant do.
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