Can you have a open porch without the inner door

[clubb699]

Hi all,

Just a quicky is it ok to have a new porch without a inner door, so it makes a bigger hallway, or do we need planning i read the planning portal but it does not mention the inner door

Thanks

 

[noseall]

Removing an external spec' door deems the porch (in the eyes of b'regs law) an extension.

However, do what you like it's your hoose. A keen surveyor may pick it up should you wish to sell.

What is the porch construction?

 

[big-all]

check with your insurer in case it effect your insurance

 

[tony1851]

Technically you would need planning permission as it is only permitted development if it is:

"The erection or construction of a porch outside any external door of a dwellinghouse"

As Noseall has said, once the existing front door is removed, it becomes an extension forward of the frontage of the house and would need p.p.

Depending on the construction and area of glazing, you would probably also fall foul of Building Regulations.

Having said that, the local building inspector or planning officer won't be calling round each and every day to check that the front door hasn't been removed.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

The rules state that the porch should be constructed at an external doorway they specifically do not state that the door must remain. noseall mentioned removal of the door in respect of Building Regs not planning.

Building Control notification only applies once the door is removed.

Also area of glazing now has no relevance as to whether it can comply or not, the regs have changed however any glazing and electrics must still comply with the regs for it to be lawful.

 

[tony1851]

The rules state that the porch should be constructed at an external doorway .

With respect, I beg to differ on this; the wording of Class D specifically refers to "door" and not "doorway". The word "doorway" could include either the door itself or the opening in which the door and frame are set; the word "door", however, is specific and can only refer to the hinged part.

One reason for having a porch is to provide some sort of separation between the house and the elements, eg to give some draughtproofing to make the house more comfortable. If you remove the existing front door, there is no point in having a porch, as you have merely extended the hallway forwards. The house would probably end up colder.

As regards buiding regs, if there's no thermal separation, (ie no door) it becomes an extension and should comply with Part L.

 

[clubb699]

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies everyone long after i posted this i very good friend whos brother in law is an architecture has put me in the right direction so case closed

 

[^woody^]

With respect, I beg to differ on this; the wording of Class D specifically refers to "door" and not "doorway". The word "doorway" could include either the door itself or the opening in which the door and frame are set; the word "door", however, is specific and can only refer to the hinged part.

That's too pedantic and not what the GPDO refers to

By definition, a porch is a shelter immediately outside an entrance. A porch can be open or enclosed, and will be outside of a doorway, which will always have a door within it

 

[tony1851]

That's too pedantic

It's not a case of being pedantic, but merely looking at the precise wording of the GPDO. Mr Twin had used the word "doorway", which is not the same as "door" and the implication of the wording is that some sort of door should remain in place for it to be pd.

A porch can of course be open or enclosed, but either way, the commonsense interpretation is that the house-door should remain, otherwise the extension just becomes an extension of the house and presumably subject to class A.

Lets say one applied for a LDC for a front extension on the house. In all respects, the plans complied with the the size-parameters in class D, but showed the original front door as being removed. Would an LDC be granted - I doubt it.

Admittdly there's probably little a council can do if a front door was later removed (aside from Building Regs) but that's a different matter.

 

[^woody^]

It is pedantic, as for the purpose of the GPDO, door and doorway are the same thing and the intention is the access "doorway"

In your interpretation, I can stick a door anywhere on the face of a wall and build a porch around it

FMT has given the correct interpretation in that a "doorway" is required. And as I said, a doorway will have a door within it, because no houses come without a front door

 

[tony1851]

It is pedantic, as for the purpose of the GPDO, door and doorway are the same thing and the intention is the access "doorway"

In your interpretation, I can stick a door anywhere on the face of a wall and build a porch around it

FMT has given the correct interpretation in that a "doorway" is required. And as I said, a doorway will have a door within it, because no houses come without a front door

Whatever

 

[^woody^]

LOL . Good debate

 

[noseall]

Oh dear sore loser!

 

[tony1851]

Oh dear sore loser!

LOSER?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I BEAT HIM HANDS-DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[clubb699]

What have started here lmao what you lot like

I was ****ed when i replied the other night room was spinning and that lol so heres a propper thanks

We was moving but have decided to stay put and extend just waiting on a quote for the side extension never mentioned the porch it was an after thought you see, so thanks alot for the great feedback not fussed if i got to have Planning etc will more than likley need to go the full hog when we get drawings for the extension on side of house not sure ifs a single or double extension yet pirce will determine the outcome.

Might just keep the door inbetween the porch for security shall have to decide

Clubb699