Can you identify this consumer unit?

[AndyPRK]

And for a diyer can seam like a big job. Because it is.

I converted my 16th edition with 3 rcbos

2 lighting, 1 socket circuit moved from rcd side.

I felt this was sufficient safety and provided some working ground floor sockets if the rcd wouldn’t reset.

 

[JohnW2]

The thing is replacing a CU is notifiable. That means if you care about being legal you have to involve either an electrican or building control which either way means a bunch of extra hassle and expense.

I suspect that some people may argue that changing the OPDs in a CU (e.g. moving things to RCBOs is also notifiable, since a different OPD create s a 'new circuit'. It could also be argued that changing most (or all!) of the devices within a CU (whilst retaining the old case, and maybe Main Switch) would, at least in spirit, amount to 'replacing a CU'.

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnD]

..some people may argue that... a different OPD create s a 'new circuit'.

That would only make sense in a language that had no word for "change"

If I put green shoelaces into my shoes, they are not new shoes.

"Alteration" is not the same as "new."

Some alterations are notifiable, and they are defined a such. This clearly means that "alteration" is not interpreted as "new". Other alterations are not notifiable.

If somebody wishes to define an alteration as new, they must say so.

Work that is defined as notifiable is notifiable. All work that is not so defined is not notifiable.

regulation 12(6A) of the Building Regulations 2010 identifies notifiable work as comprising the installation of a new or replacement consumer unit, the installation of a complete new circuit connected to the consumer unit, or alteration work in and around a bath or shower.

see https://assets.publishing.service.g...achment_data/file/441872/BR_PDF_AD_P_2013.pdf
pages 6 and 7

 

[JohnW2]

That would only make sense in a language that had no word for "change". ... If I put green shoelaces into my shoes, they are not new shoes. ... "Alteration" is not the same as "new."

I was merely reporting 'what some people argue' and there is no doubt that some believe that re-purposing a circuit or changing its OPD (particularly to a higher-rated one) does constitute creation of a 'new circuit' - not 'new' in the sense of 'brand new', but new in the sense that a circuit with the new purpose and/or new OPD had not previously existed. I was not saying, and nor am I now saying, that I necessarily hold that view (although I might in some circumstances).

"regulation 12(6A) of the Building Regulations 2010 identifies notifiable work as comprising the installation of a new or replacement consumer unit, the installation of a complete new circuit connected to the consumer unit, or alteration work in and around a bath or shower."

Does that come from ADP? If the legislation said exactly that, I would probably have a bit more sympathy with your viewpoint but last time I saw the legislation, it still said ....

... stupidly, no mention of installing a new CU (only replacing one!), and no mention that a 'new circuit' has to be a "complete new circuit connected to the consumer unit"

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnD]

yes, your 12 (6A) is the same one I looked at. The "summary" came from the a .gov guidance page. I later edited out the quote marks as it is not authoritative text.

12 (6A) does not define a change of OPD as notifiable work, therefore it is not notifiable.

 

[JohnW2]

12 (6A) does not define a change of OPD as notifiable work, therefore it is not notifiable.

As I said, some people would disagree since what the legislation actually says about "a new circuit" (in contrast to what your "non-authoritative text" said) is sufficiently vague as to allow various different interpretations.

To echo your words above, 12 (6A) does not define the installation of a new CU as notifiable work - so would you complete that sentence by writing "...therefore it is not notifiable"?

Kind Regards, John

 

[JohnD]

how do you install a new (not replacement) CU without installing any new circuits? Is it installed?

Add them later? And notify at that point?

 

[JohnW2]

how do you install a new (not replacement) CU without installing any new circuits? Is it installed?

Well, if I thought as you seem to think, by 'transferring' some existing circuits from an existing CU (which was going to continue to exist).

Consider a perfectly credible (albeit not very sensible) hypothetical scenario ... one has an old CU without any RCDs and wants to provide RCD protection for some of the circuits. One decides to install a new small CU, with RCD's, and transfers some of the existing circuits to that new CU, but leaving some (maybe cooker, immersion and perhaps one lighting circuit) still running from the 'existing' CU. One has not replaced a CU and, by your reasoning, has not created any new circuits - so, in terms of what the legislation actually says, the work would not be notifiable, would it?

However, this is a rather silly side discussion. I was merely trying to illustrate that this part of the legislation is badly written. They obviously should have (as in your other document) included the installation of new, as well as replacement, CUs. They also should have been far more explicit about what they mean by "the installation of a new circuit", so as to avoid uncertainties and discussions such as we are having. Don't forget that, as often discussed here, in terms of the BS7671 definition of 'a circuit', adding a FCU (and something it feeds) to an existing circuit constitutes the creation of a new circuit, and I don't think anyone really believes that they intended such work to be notifiable - after all, adding an FCU to an existing circuit was one of the few things that was not notifiable prior to April 2013 (and still today in Wales).

Kind Regards, John

 

[SUNRAY]

Although this appears to be going the way of many a thread, so far it is with reasoned argument.

In response to JW2, I would suggest that installing an extra CU (even without any outgoing circuits) would in itself constitute a new circuit.

 

[securespark]

Some of the first CUs I fitted were like that. How silly things have become now.

Says the man who wears a suit and animal head to work!

 

[JohnW2]

In response to JW2, I would suggest that installing an extra CU (even without any outgoing circuits) would in itself constitute a new circuit.

Firstly, I presume that you, and everyone else, understand that there is no way in which I believe it is intended that 'installing a new CU' (however one defines/regards that) one. However, that does not excuse the wording of the legislation.

As for what you say above, I would not have thought that anyone would believe that 'screwing a CU to a wall' (and not connecting it to anything) could possibly be notifiable work - and as for 'a new circuit', I can't see how that could be the case when, in terms of both common sense and BS7671 definition, there were no circuits at all!

This all started, I think reasonably, when someone suggested that rearranging an existing CU and changing many of the devices within it would have the advantage over replacing the CU of not being notifiable work. I merely pointed out that some people would say that changing OPDs resulted in the creation of 'new circuits', hence notifiable, anyway.

Kind Regards, John