carpenters must be rich

[27neth]

Straight question which I hope nobody takes umbrage with:

I've noticed far too often that works carried out by professional tradesmen in schools is all too often of a quality which I wouldn't accept at home, and in my experience both at home and in other people's houses, pro tradesmen who know their oats really are worth paying extra for since there's somethings that they have (called skill, experience, pride and speed). So the question is - do any of you lower your expectations when doing work in publically funded buildings, and if so, then why?

I work alot in schools and agree most of the joiney work i have seen in them is terrible... (im a joiner).
90% of the doors i have seen i would never accept, they are hung that badly. Most of the toilet cubicles are also a disaster..

 

[JohnD]

I wonder if perhaps the school goes for the lowest bidder?

 

[calorific]

I wonder if perhaps the school goes for the lowest bidder?

Not the case in my experience. I've seen jobs charged at overinflated prices (based on knowledge of what I've paid for simpler and similar jobs at home) and the quality is utterly shocking.

 

[ladylola]

I've not got that much experience in schools but have worked in several civic buildings. This might open a can of worms but the poorest work I've seen more often than not comes from agency workers and we would generally put them on the less demanding tasks.

On the subject of the cost of tools, this was brought home to me earlier this year. I'd been fortunate to work for a firm that supplied all the power tools even down to a cordless drill. Unfortunately this came to an end when the firm folded and I found myself at another place facing the prospect of having to purchase power tools. In a six month period it cost me around £12 a week (I toted it up later) to buy tools and I didn't have much of a kit to show for it. Oddly enough I did manage to "get away" with a 240v SDS drill for most of that time before finally buying a second hand 110v one.

 

[gregers]

Straight question which I hope nobody takes umbrage with:

I've noticed far too often that works carried out by professional tradesmen in schools is all too often of a quality which I wouldn't accept at home, and in my experience both at home and in other people's houses, pro tradesmen who know their oats really are worth paying extra for since there's somethings that they have (called skill, experience, pride and speed). So the question is - do any of you lower your expectations when doing work in publically funded buildings, and if so, then why?

i think here it comes down to,price.
the company has priced the job close to the bone,so who ever does it has to do it quickly.
and also if it fails once the kids are back at school,the blame isnt on the contractor but on the kids,ie wear and tear.
come the next holiday guess who comes back.
so why do a job once for a minimal amount when you can get various bites at the apple and charge accordingly.

 

[Harbourwoodwork]

I've not got that much experience in schools but have worked in several civic buildings. This might open a can of worms but the poorest work I've seen more often than not comes from agency workers and we would generally put them on the less demanding tasks.

that old chestnut ,the poorest work comes from the poorest chippies

 

[stevethejoiner]

I do not know how much it costs to calibrate electrical test equipment but I do know that some domestic electrical engineers can fit all their tools, and the consumer unit, and the cable, and the back boxes, and face plates in an estate car, plus their short steps, oh, I must not forget the 6" spirit level that they don't use.

Multimeter - £400
Clamp meter - £270
Multifunction tester - £800
PAT tester (if needed) - £250
Additional voltage/continuty tester - £120
Backup tools - £plenty more

Yearly calibration - £christ knows, I'm bored of looking it up.

Don't underestimate the cost of proper tools for electrical work. Not mentioned here: Multiple sets of insulated screwdrivers, pliers, cutters, spanners, pipe bender capable of handling steel conduit, die set, socket sinker kit, holesaws, and the list certainly goes on. House bashers need not apply.

And before you have a go at me, I'm not knocking the work of carpenters, brickies, plumbers.. I hire all of you if I can't do the job well enough myself.

Thank you for proving my point. You have simply confirmed that I was not underestimating the cost of electrical tools compared with carpentry tools. Your quoted price list of electrical tools investment is £1840 and if we add £1000 for so called "back up tools" and say £500 for hand tools. With annual calibration of a 17th edition tester at £70 and £65 for the PAT tester, tell you what lets budget for 5 years of calibration at £675 your still only talking £3450. That's still only a third of my tool investment.

 

[gregers]

steve dont forget to add your norris planes youve got stashed away

 

[Monkeh]

I do not know how much it costs to calibrate electrical test equipment but I do know that some domestic electrical engineers can fit all their tools, and the consumer unit, and the cable, and the back boxes, and face plates in an estate car, plus their short steps, oh, I must not forget the 6" spirit level that they don't use.

Multimeter - £400
Clamp meter - £270
Multifunction tester - £800
PAT tester (if needed) - £250
Additional voltage/continuty tester - £120
Backup tools - £plenty more

Yearly calibration - £christ knows, I'm bored of looking it up.

Don't underestimate the cost of proper tools for electrical work. Not mentioned here: Multiple sets of insulated screwdrivers, pliers, cutters, spanners, pipe bender capable of handling steel conduit, die set, socket sinker kit, holesaws, and the list certainly goes on. House bashers need not apply.

And before you have a go at me, I'm not knocking the work of carpenters, brickies, plumbers.. I hire all of you if I can't do the job well enough myself.

Thank you for proving my point. You have simply confirmed that I was not underestimating the cost of electrical tools compared with carpentry tools. Your quoted price list of electrical tools investment is £1840 and if we add £1000 for so called "back up tools" and say £500 for hand tools. With annual calibration of a 17th edition tester at £70 and £65 for the PAT tester, tell you what lets budget for 5 years of calibration at £675 your still only talking £3450. That's still only a third of my tool investment.

You don't seem to have a point other than insulting electricians and tarring them all with the same brush..

 

[stevethejoiner]

Dear Monkeh
I am not being insulting to anyone, least of all electricians. I am just trying to justify why carpenters should not be expected to work at a lower hourly rate than electricians, and a higher tool investment is one reason why.

 

[hazetimesfive]

because not all the stuff you do is worth the price

 

[Harbourwoodwork]

because not all the stuff you do is worth the price

do you care to flesh it out a bit

 

[noseall]

because not all the stuff you do is worth the price

Rather a provocative statement.
Are you under the impression that there is any one trade that people say ALL the jobs you do is value for money?

 

[gregers]

because not all the stuff you do is worth the price

Rather a provocative statement.
Are you under the impression that there is any one trade that people say ALL the jobs you do is value for money?

YEAH,i dont get paid enough for what i do.they get me cheap.

 

[Harbourwoodwork]

I know one thing, I will never get to the end of a very long list of tools that I need and if I did the gear I originally bought will have worn out,perpetual motion