Ceiling Speakers

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I have a problem with my ceiling speakers. At the 1st fix wiring stage i installed bell wire from my music centre to two ceiling speakers. However now that i have fitted them, they are very quiet even with the music centre on fairly high. What can i do? the speakers are 100v and have 1.5, 2.5, 3, and 6W tappings. I get the best output at the 6W tapping. I think they have 6 or 7 ohm written on them somewhere.

Thanks for any help,
declan.
 
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if you are driving theese off a domestic amplifier you need to disconnect the 100V line transformer and connect your wiring directly to the speaker.

if you have more than two speakers use paralell series or a mixture of the two to get the overall impedance of the speakers on a channel to be as close as possible to what your stereo maker reccomends. Obviosuly if you have only one speaker per channel you can't do this but i suspect 7 ohms will be ok with most.
 
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thanks for the replys,
I'm only learning! I simply ran a two core bellwire from the two connections on the speaker directly to the rear of my music centre.( A standard cd/radio/cassette arrangement.) I was hoping to have these two ceiling speakers (one in the kitchen, one in the living) working along with the standard speakers that come with every music centre. I thought they might work on exactly the same principle as my existing two?

Thanks
Declan
 
got a picture of theese speakers? prefferablly from the back?
 
Copied the following article for you to read

100v speakers are for PA systemes and need a 100v output amplfier

Read it and see if you have bought the wrong type


WHAT IS 100V LINE, WHAT IS 4ohms, HOW DO THEY RELATE, WHY DOES IT MATTER, CAN I CONVERT?

If the loudspeaker connections to an amplifier are described as "low impedance" or "4ohms" or "8ohms" etc, then that amplifier is intended to be used with loudspeakers which are close by, and of a type which are similarly described. The loudspeaker(s) will draw the optimum power from the amplifier when the load presented by the loudspeaker matches the output rating of the amplifier. Obviously the loudspeakers must also be able to handle the power (Watts) that the amplifier will develop or there will be an expensive wisp of smoke from the speaker, the amplifier, or both. This type of arrangement is used on domestic audio, automobile audio, and PA systems for rock bands, and similar. Within the limitations above, this concept works just fine, but is absolutely no use whatever if your loudspeakers are well away from the amplifier, or if you need different audio levels from various loudspeakers dotted around a large site, simply because the power lost in the cables would be collossal with a low impedance system. You could easily waste 50% or more of amplifier power just in the cables. A 100V line system is the answer. An amplifier with an output described as "100V" or "100 Volt Line" MUST be used with 100V line speakers. The loudspeaker cable is routed round the site to cover all the areas required, and at each loudspeaker location, a 100V speaker is connected and it consumes an amount of power (watts) determined by the speaker - not the amplifier. Some speakers have an adjustment or "tapping" to fine tune the level. The inherent design of a 100V speaker also ensures that it cannot be overpowered if connected correctly, unlike a low impedance system, and there is no limit to the number of loudspeakers on the line except that the total combined consumed power must not exceed the amplifier output power rating(Watts).

However, there has to be a drawback and because the 100V system necessitates the amplifier output to be "stepped up" to 100V and then down again to low impedance at each loudspeaker, there is an element of loss introduced. Years ago this might have resulted in a problem with reduced bass or treble response, or even a "woolly" response, but modern amplifier and loudspeaker technologies now ensure that this problem is only very minimal indeed, and in most cases quite inaudible, unless you have the ears of a bat. All serious distributed sound systems use the 100V line principle (or 70V line in the USA).

HOW DO THEY RELATE? -choice will depend upon the application:

100V line for complete flexibility of locations, levels, types of speaker -mix-and-match, on a large site, and no limits to the number of loudspeakers.

Low impedance for the localised amplifier-speaker arrangement, one or two speakers per amplifier, and perhaps for the purist?

DOES IT MATTER - no, but you wouldn't plough a field with your limo, nor would you cruise off on holiday on a tractor, yet they might cost about the same. Both 4 -wheeled vehicles - just different applications. You may as well do the job correctly in the first place.

100V SAFETY Be careful when dealing with 100V technolgy as you can get an electric shock. Best switch all equipment off completely before working on the system.

CAN I CONVERT? from low impedance to 100V ? Well you might be able to, but you'd need to know the output specifications of the amplifier, its performance on inductive loads, its protection ability, calculate the bandwidth of a transformer, its saturation performance, its ratio, find one...., and by the time you've finished you might be better advised to re-plan with 100V equipment in mind. Only if you're very lucky would you stand a fighting chance of an acceptable result, and at worst you will wreck your amplifier. Do you feel lucky?

- from 100V to low impedance? IF YOU HAVE A FAVOURED CABINET LOUDSPEAKER that's wired for low impedance and you would like to convert it to 100V line then take a look at our T.5 range of line transformers, designed for that very application. They are large, wideband, multiratio devices that you'd install inside the cabinet. We wind transformers for our own equipment so we may be able to offer you custom transformers. Enquiries are welcome but minimum quantities apply -usually 10 pieces.



CAN I USE 100V AND LOW IMPEDANCE SPEAKERS ON THE SAME AMPLIFER?

Yes but there are limitations, and few amplifiers offer this dual aoutput facility. In practice, where the unit consists of one amplifier stage, you would consume say half the power available from the amplifier in a low impedance loudspeaker load, and then arrange for the remainder to be consumed by a 100V line loudspeaker array. You would connect the low impedance speaker to the low impedance output, and the 100V speakers to the 100V output, but the tricky aspect is ensuring that the power is shared accurately. You would connect an 8 ohm or 16 ohm loudspeaker for example to the 4 ohm amplifier output to limit the low impedance consumption, and then take up some of the remaining available power at 100V. It's very inflexible, it's messy, can jeopardise your amplifier, and we recommend that you don't try it unless there's no alternative.
 
most 100V line speakers i've seen though do have a transformer that its possible to disconnct somehow (may require dismantling)
 
thanks for all the replys. I got them working. As plugwash suggested i bypassed the 100v transformer and wired my bell wire direct to the speaker units. Having never had anything to do with speakers before i didn't understand what i was dealing with.
Thanks again for all your help.
Declan.
 
Make sure that by simply parallelling those speakers with your standard HI-FI ones isn;t going to overload your amp - many have protection, and many do not!!

Is this an all-in-one type stereo?? If so, I doubt it has much protection as it is designed to be paired with it's speakers only usually.

Check the rear of your stereo and see if it says 4-16ohm or 8-16ohm or similar??

Also - bell wire........your 8ohm speakers in the kitchen probably present a much higher impedance to the amp than that after connecting with bell wire :LOL: Does the cable you have used have a single solid conductor (x2) or does it have stranded conductors - maybe your terminoligy is wrong?!?
 
thanks lectrician,
i have them working at the minute with an old stereo. They work fine, however i did notice that after the were on for a while they became alot louder. When i touched the volume control they went back to normal.

The rear of my jvc "all in one" stereo (the one i intend to use the speakers with when we move in) has "CAUTION 6-16 OHM" written underneath the speaker jacks.

Both of my ceiling speakers have SEC 8 OHM written on the 100v transformer.


Does this present a problem? the fact that i have two of these type speakers parrelled off my stereo in addition to the standard speakers.

Will this 8 OHM vary anyway due to my ommission of the 100v transformer.

Is there any other options?

Thanks
Declan.

Just wondering is that 6-16 ohms per 'channel' (dont know is that the right term) (left/ right speaker terminals).

My bell wire is stranded 2-core. About 10M length to each speaker.
 
There's going to be a massive signal drop over 10m of bell wire, I seriously suggest replacing it with some proper speaker cable, Richer Sounds have a good range of quality speaker cable, starting at 69p a metre, although there are plenty of other places you can buy decent speaker cable.
 
I have commonly used twin 1mm flex and larger for speakers - I can't see the problem at all.

Look at what they give you with a new stereo.... :rolleyes:
 
You're hardly comparing eggs with eggs here. Why on earth are you even mentioning SWA? It's like saying "£10 for 5 litres of Castrol GTX?! You could buy 50 litres of Sunflower oil for that price!" It's meaningless!

Fine if you want use an old bit of mains cable, swa, heck even some coax, but don't expect it to sound good. We are talking about maybe 5 volts tops going down this cable if the amp is cranked, quality of cable is imperative. 69p/m is at the bottom end of speaker cable, to be honest for a 10m run I personally wouldn't think about spending less than £2/m, anything else is just going to take all the life out of your music.
 

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