Certification

[fattony]

I think I know the answer to my question but I want to double check:

A friend of mine has an Electric Gate and garage door business and has installed a SWA from the house down to he gate, as they are not allowed to install a fused spur they fitted a plug top and plugged it in as a temporary measure to get it working for testing purposes - then informed the customer they will need to get an electrician in to install a fused spur and carry out final connections.

The electrician now wants a certificate for their part of the work, in effect they have plugged in an appliance, I can understand the electricians reasons for wanting the certificate as Part P covers all work outside the house and doesn't want to be pulled up on it by NICEIC.

Do they have to issue a certificate? Could a non Part P electrician certify the SWA.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

1. Anybody can issue an EIC for work they have done - they need no particular qualifications, nor do they need to be registered. A non-registered electrician cannot certify anything as compliant with the Building Regulations.
   
2. "Not allowed" to install a fused spur is a nonsense - anybody is allowed to install fused spurs anywhere at any time, but depending on the exact nature of the work some people have to notify LABC in advance.
   
3. "Plugged in an appliance" is a nonsense - if the cable is fixed and the equipment it is serving is fixed then putting a plug on the end of the cable does not change its fixed status.
   
4. "Part P covers all work outside the house" - Part P of the Building Regulations covers all work on all fixed electrical cables or fixed electrical equipment located on the consumer's side of the electricity supply meter that that are intended to operate at low or extra-low voltage and are in a dwelling etc, it doesn't matter whereabouts they are.
   
5. If the electrician did not install the cable, then he should not be signing a piece of paper to say that he did. He can test the cable and record its IR and loop readings etc, and he can certify the work that he does, i.e. the fused spur, but he cannot, legally, certify that the installation of the cable complied with either the Wiring Regulations or the Building Regulations.
   
6. Part P has been in force for over 3 years - what has your friend been doing for all that time to comply with the law?

 

[fattony]

Yeah I thought I'd see answers like that, I agree with all of your points with reference to point 2 I was saying they're not allowed to under building regs - point 5 was the relevant answer for me thanks. As for point 6 they normally run a temp cable in a duct (for testing purposes) then an electrician comes along and connects it up.

I spoke to NICEIC and they would be allowed to run the cable if it was clipped direct as the self certifying electrician would be able to inspect the cable.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

with reference to point 2 I was saying they're not allowed to under building regs

There is nothing in the Building Regulations which says that.

I spoke to NICEIC and they would be allowed to run the cable if it was clipped direct as the self certifying electrician would be able to inspect the cable.

Bit tacky to have the cable on show.

And in any event, yes, the electrician can inspect the cable, so he could sign the I&T part of a 3-part EIC, including certifying that it was installed according to the Wiring Regulations.

But he cannot certify someone else's work as compliant with the Building Regulations, and if he declares that he installed the cable then he is lying.

 

[fattony]

No I realise that my statement 'they're not allowed to install a fused spur' under building regs - sorry my fault.

 

[Pensdown]

But he cannot certify someone else's work as compliant with the Building Regulations, and if he declares that he installed the cable then he is lying.

That's not strictly true. If the registered third party has supervised the works from the outset, they can sign it off as compliant (1.28 in the approved document).

In the commercial world, very few companies use BC. The simply appoint a company/project manager who has been approved to self certify.

Schemes members who are adjudged sufficiently competent in their work can self-certify that their work has been carried out in compliance with all applicable requirements of the Building Regulations.

I think once the Part P dust has settled there will be registered companies offering the same service in the domestic market for electrical installations because I can't see the differance.

http://www.communities.gov.uk/plann...ulations/competentpersonsschemes/whatarecpss/

 

[saxondale]

But he cannot certify someone else's work as compliant with the Building Regulations, and if he declares that he installed the cable then he is lying.

That's not strictly true. If the registered third party has supervised the works from the outset, they can sign it off as compliant (1.28 in the approved document).

do it ourselfs regularly - I`m a subbie for the sparks (on paper)