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Changing elect ceramic hob to Samsung ceramic hob

Discussion in 'Electrics UK' started by nunesal, 27 Nov 2014.

  1. nunesal

    nunesal

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    Hello all,
    I need some advice please:
    I am in the process of replacing my 20 year old 4-ring Thorn ceramic hob (which has one halogen ring on it) with a similar but Samsung C61R2AEE ceramic one without a halogen ring. The rating of the old hob is 6.0Kw and the new Samsung is rated at 6.5Kw. The present hob setup is supplied with power using a flat twin & earth from a dedicated 32 amp mcb via a control (isolator) switch located 2ft below the hob in a cupboard. (Oven has separate mcb). The run from the mcb to the control switch is 1.5 metres long and from the switch to the hob is also approx 1.5 meters. The actual voltage to the hob from the CU is 247volts checked using a multimeter (a little higher than the 220-240 domestic supply I guess).The flat t&e white cable at the hob (pre harmonisation, with black and red wires) has the wording "300/500volts basec" and "Pirelli General, England" imprinted on the outer sheath. I have measured the outer sheath (using a tape, not a caliper or micrometer) which reads 13mm by 7mm and each wire has 7 strands. Going by the Wiki on this site, the cable size appears to be 6mm2.
    Now comes the question:
    The instruction manual states that a "A type H05SS - F (180°C) cable or one of a higher grade must be used as the mains connecting cable". It also adds:
    Nominal cross-sectional area (mm2): >4 and <6
    Rated current of appliance (A): > 25 and &#8804; 32

    I cannot find a cable spec described above at any retailers or suppliers. I have contacted the Samsung Technical helpline as well as the retailer's helpline and Q&A on their website (I submitted the question) but they were unable to tell me what the alternative to this "type" of cable should be. Can I use the existing 6mm2 cable? Its the 180°C which concerns me. Can some of the experts here please help? Many thanks.


     
  2. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

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    If you have a 32A MCB then 4mm² cable is fine. Bigger doesn't matter.

    You should use heat resistant cable but lots don't.
    Does your present cable show any sign of heat damage?

    The voltage is fine and will vary.
    300/500 is the maximum for the cable so 247V is ok..
     
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  3. ericmark

    ericmark

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    So you are asking if when the manufacturer says use a cable rated at 180°C you can use one rated 70°C or 90°C. Even if the manufacturer is asking for cable which is not really required would you really expect any electricians to say they don't know what they are talking about use what ever you want?

    It's rather simple if they say 180°C then that's what is required.
     
  4. nunesal

    nunesal

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    Thanks EFLI, as you may have noticed from the pic I submitted, there is no overheating damage to the cable (which I guess would be about 20+ years old). There is some age discolouring and dust on it. The leccy I contacted said that the cable would be fine, but I was not sure.
     
  5. nunesal

    nunesal

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    Hi Ericmark, The question has arisen due to the fact that I am unable to obtain a 180C cable or an equivalent, that is why I asked the question if anyone could advise as to how to proceed. Perhaps a supplier's name would be helpful. I was not trying to ignore the manufacturer's instructions.
     
  6. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

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  7. stillp

    stillp

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    The manual does say "A type H05SS - F (180°C) cable or one of a higher grade must be used as the mains connecting cable."
     
  8. nunesal

    nunesal

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    The instruction/operating manual on page 6 states 180C. (link below) I too wondered if it should have been in degreesF. Samsung tech helpline were unable to advise. They transferred me to a comapny who fit cookers, etc in Essex, despite fact that they know I live in Hants! I spent at least 35 minutes on the phone, but not any wiser. Matter of fact I had to tell them where to find the bit about the 180°C in the instruction manual. They simply said "contact another electrician" to get the hob fitted. The retailer too could not help. They too said contact an electrician who should know!

    Here's the link:
    http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/c...4187_C_Top_MID]_C61RAAST_XEU-00031A-01_EN.pdf
     
  9. skotl

    skotl

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    Well, you're certainly correct that it states 180C! It does helpfully give a cable product reference, H05SS, and a quick google seems to suggest that RS stocks it in the UK, however it is *very* expensive;

    http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/multicore-industrial-cable/8079287/

    I would seriously wonder what the hardwood / particleboard kitchen unit that houses the hob is going to think of a 180C ambient temperature. I suspect it will respond with smoke and fire...
     
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  10. EFLImpudence

    EFLImpudence

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  11. nunesal

    nunesal

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    You are right Skotl about the hardwood mount (!!), but looking at the RS stockist listing, the cable is pricey and the quoted mm2 is for "Cross Sectional Area 1.5 mm² ". Hate to think what a 4mm2/6mm2 would cost! I am just wondering how these hobs are fitted elsewhere in the country, as there must be hundreds if not thousands of these models in use in UK kitchens!
     
  12. flameport

    flameport

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    Yes, no need to buy anything.

    Obviously a colossal mistake, the terminals and underside will not be anywhere near that temperature, and even reaching 70°C (maximum for normal PVC cable) would be unlikely.

    As is often the case with hobs, ovens and cookers, the instructions supplied are useless.

    They are connected with 6mm flat T&E, just like your old hob was.
     
  13. nunesal

    nunesal

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    I was wondering if I should replace the 20-year old 6mm cable from the isolation switch to the hob with a new one, although this would mean using a harmonised version (grey) in place of the existing pre-harmonised version (white). Is there any benefit in this? Would I have to placcard the CU?
     
  14. flameport

    flameport

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    Unless the existing cable is damaged in some way then no point in replacing it.
    PVC insulation does not generally degrade unless the cable is overloaded or damaged by exposure to chemicals / sunlight / vermin or whatever. It should easily last 40+ years.

    If you did replace it, then yes - a mixed colours warning label would be required at the CU.
    However absolutely no need to replace, and even if you replaced that piece, the rest of the circuit in the wall will still be the 'old' cable.
     
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  15. nunesal

    nunesal

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    Thank you for your advice. I agree that the rest of the circuit wiring would be of the 'old' spec. As the present wiring appears to be sound I will leave it as is. Hoping for happy cooking days ahead!

    Appreciate also the contribution from other learned posters on this sites to resolve this issue. :D
     
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