Chimney Breast removed - is this sufficient to hold it?

[kentmonkey]

Hi all

First time on here and I'm hoping you can help.

We're in the process of purchasing a 1930's semi which had four fireplaces, 2 up and 2 down, the same as the adjoining neighbours.

In the living room one Chimney breast is still present (the 'feature' chimney breast) but the corner chimney breast has been removed. The fireplace directly above in the bedroom still exists.

We queried this and found out that it was done somewhere between 15-30 years ago by other vendors, and it was unlikely that any building regs had been obtained when it was done.

We asked them to pull up the floorboards so we could inspect what was there which they have done tonight and we've been informed, by the current vendor, that what we're looking at is a concrete lintel that goes into the party wall and is sufficient to hold up the chimney breast in the bedroom. I have no reason to doubt him, he has been quite open with us about other things, but he was getting his information from somebody else. We too took advice from an elderly relative who used to be a builder, and he advised that we should see a concrete lintel. However, I'm still not sure whether this is a lintel or a hearth.

The picture below is of the concrete slab, but unfortunately needs to be rotated by 90 degrees, and the fireplace is on the wall above it, but covered over.

We understand that they're not keen on paying for the expense of a structural engineer as we've been told by the Estate Agents that they believe as it has stood for so long without any issue there isn't a concern, and neither are we if that all looks above board. Neither can we really afford to, as the house has stretched us to our limits as it is.

It has stood on awful long time with no visible signs of cracks (although I have noticed in that image a slight mark on the wall to the right, following one of the wooden posts, but that could be a mark from a bedside cabinet which usually stands near there.)

Any advice greatly appreciated. View media item 37559

 

[kentmonkey]

I forgot to add that the downstairs partitioning wall between the living and dining rooms has been removed but there is a big beam in place for that, and the main feature fire place is still there, which goes all the way up to where the old wall would have been, and thus, I assume, also plays some structural part in the fireplace.

Key word there though is 'assume'.

 

[big-all]

what did the surveyor say when you asked for "your full structural survey" ??
why would you buy the biggest thing you have ever bought without a condition report ok i agree its an added expense but less than 0.5% in general

it is possibly very safe as is the whole house but without a full survey you are in the dark
the house can be falling around your ears
woodworm new roof damp subsidence etc if you don't ask the question they need not tell you
and iff they don't know its your problem

the building society "home buyers report" only say its worth what they are lending and they wont tell you off any problems

 

[kentmonkey]

Oh we've had the full survey done (full building survey) with a 40 page report, and he stated in that there had been a removal of a chimney breast with no known building regs but that there was no sign of any structural issues, that the bricks on the chimney breast in the loft were all fine with no visible cracks and he generally didn't seem to have a concern about it.

He picked up on some other minor items, but no damp, no rotting of wood, no wood worm, and no mentionable concerns of the chimney breast, although he didn't have the benefit of looking under the floorboards as we have tonight.

 

[big-all]

excellent you are protecting your interest
surveyors will use buzz words like "may need" --"will soon need replacing"--"near the end off its life"--" may not comply"
but at least you know what to look at and in general iff its been like that for years then its less liklely to be a problem

 

[kentmonkey]

Indeed, that's what has made us run dry actually as that was the best part of a grand, and therefore we don't have the money to throw around on yet another report/inspection that may not be needed.

I'm still just worried that the above image is of a boxed hearth and not of something structural, although both dads and a grandad (gotta love them) are saying that it looks fine. I just can't see how something like that can be structural though.

 

[big-all]

you need to remember you can corbel bricks where each progressive layer can support an adittional 1/3 or half brick if ther is enough weight/strength on the wall
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=co...&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1043&bih=481

 

[kentmonkey]

I can't remember something I didn't know

Well I've learned something new tonight. Corbel. I thought he was a fat comedian.

So it's likely then that they could have done that. I assume something must have happened for it to last so long (unless it's taken the strength from the overall structure as the next door neighbours also has four fireplaces and thus it's now a seven fireplace chimney rather than eight).

 

[big-all]

its done on several layers
the support underneath may not be enough the corbeling may not be enough
the weight off the wall may not be enough but as a package remove one off the three the others will fully cope
in this instance it looks like all three are in place but i am no expert
but having said that no cracks = no movement[unless hidden]