Chipboard flooring want to remove nails

[TonyWarrington]

Fed up of the creaking upstairs chipboard floors in bedrooms and landing. I am looking for a long term solution prior to new carpets

Some years ago I fixed the same problem in one bedroom by putting spax floorboard screws in (a lot!), close by the original nail. Only problem was that I managed to screw through a heating pipe on the last but one screw!! (I had checked with detector prior - but...) and had to call out emergency plumbing.

Thinking now that it may be the best solution to try and remove and replace the ring shank nails with screws (and maybe PVA glue down joints). Problem is removing ring shank nails in the past proved to be a real PITA - only way at the time was to chisel a surrounding hole and pry the nails out!

Is there any tool or particular method that will help as I am looking at several hundred nails?

 

[geraldthehamster]

I would not attempt to try to remove several hundred ring shank nails.

 

[JohnD]

creaking upstairs chipboard

rip it all up and replace with ply. Add nogs/struts under unsupported joints, and where you have to cut small pieces, which flex more. Put your whole boards in the middle of the room and any cut pieces round the edge, preferably furthest from the door and sink where there will be less traffic.

 

[TonyWarrington]

I would not attempt to try to remove several hundred ring shank nails.

Thanks, several hundred may be an exaggeration and I am not intending to do all at one time.

rip it all up and replace with ply. Add nogs/struts under unsupported joints, and where you have to cut small pieces, which flex more. Put your whole boards in the middle of the room and any cut pieces round the edge, preferably furthest from the door and sink where there will be less traffic.

I know that this is going to be the best solution as I did this for bathroom refurbs some years ago, but I am trying to avoid doing so much work if possible.

I was wondering if a tool such as this would work or be just a waste of money?
https://www.faithfulltools.com/p/FAINAILPULL/Nail-Puller

 

[geraldthehamster]

I wouldn't attempt to pull out ring nails, full stop. Can't you put the screws through next to them?

 

[TonyWarrington]

I wouldn't attempt to pull out ring nails, full stop. Can't you put the screws through next to them?

Yes, but there is always a chance of hitting a pipe notched into joists near the nail head (happened to me once before even after trying to detect anything near screw head)

 

[Deleted member 174758]

I was wondering if a tool such as this would work or be just a waste of money?
https://www.faithfulltools.com/p/FAINAILPULL/Nail-Puller

Yes, they work, but they chew-up chipboard something shocking. I believe they were originally sold for dismantling packing cases, pallets (as illustrated in your chosen link) and fences, etc where the timber parts were being removed for replacement and probably skipped. To use one you hammer the two jaws into the timber either side of the nail, which leaves dirty great gouges in the timber, then you pull the lever across pivoting on the heal which closes the jaws on the nail and drags it out. Doesn't always work with ring nails (the sort they should be using for flooring) which can snap, break-out big holes in the chipboard, etc

How many nails do you have? Back of a fag packet calc - on an 8 x 2ft sheet on 16in/400mm centres, you should be nailed at 12in/300mm centres, giving 21 nails per sheet, A 14 x 12ft room would have give or take 2200 nails unless I'm much mistaken. that'd mean one heck of a mess if you use a nail puller!

 

[JohnD]

no prob if you put the chipboard on the bonfire later


where it belongs.

 

[geraldthehamster]

Put the screw in next to the nail, but further towards the edge of the joist, rather than further along the joist. That way you shouldn't hit any notches.

 

[TonyWarrington]

Yes, they work, but they chew-up chipboard something shocking. I believe they were originally sold for dismantling packing cases, pallets (as illustrated in your chosen link) and fences, etc where the timber parts were being removed for replacement and probably skipped. To use one you hammer the two jaws into the timber either side of the nail, which leaves dirty great gouges in the timber, then you pull the lever across pivoting on the heal which closes the jaws on the nail and drags it out. Doesn't always work with ring nails (the sort they should be using for flooring) which can snap, break-out big holes in the chipboard, etc

How many nails do you have? Back of a fag packet calc - on an 8 x 2ft sheet on 16in/400mm centres, you should be nailed at 12in/300mm centres, giving 21 nails per sheet, A 14 x 12ft room would have give or take 2200 nails unless I'm much mistaken. that'd mean one heck of a mess if you use a nail puller!

Thank you. Good points, and yes a lot of nails. IIRC I used about 400 screws on the last part bedroom floor (it has held up well for the last 10 years!). The damage to boards was a concern and if the tool could actually lift ring shank without making a huge hole that would mean screwing out of the question.

no prob if you put the chipboard on the bonfire later


where it belongs.

Yes, I really dislike the stuff and would have preferred either plywood sheeting or traditional T&G. For me the biggest problem is the fact that nails are used rather than screws. It seems over time depending on area traffic the ring shank nails get bounced out of the chipboard - at least enough to cause creaks and groans! Probably the fastest method for house builders but why not take a little more time and if chipboard has to be used why not use screws?
While I am at it with a mini rant it should be standard practice for all floors to be marked with the run of services

Put the screw in next to the nail, but further towards the edge of the joist, rather than further along the joist. That way you shouldn't hit any notches.

Sounds like a good option to consider.

Thank you all for the sound advice and opinions - I expected no less from this forum

I have decided to stay with the chipboard flooring (at least for now!) and carefully check for (and mark!) pipe and electrical runs prior to using Spax flooring screws.

I have also seen suggestions in getting diluted PVA (1:3) down the joints and working it in prior to screwing down - no idea if this of any help but may give it a try

 

[Leofric]

Somebody advised me not to use glue as it makes it difficult if you want to take up boards for some reason in the future , just screwing down chipboard flooring panels should be ok.

 

[Deleted member 174758]

Somebody advised me not to use glue as it makes it difficult if you want to take up boards for some reason in the future , just screwing down chipboard flooring panels should be ok.

Don't know where that came from, but if you don't glue T&G chipboard it can eventually start creaking. Glue the tongues using D3 or D4 PVA - this is the recommended procedure of a number of T&G chipboard manufacturers. In point of fact it's fairly normal nowadays to glue the boards to the joists as well using a construction adhesive or PU glue. In terms of lifting boards at some date in the future unless you are prepared (having removed the furniture and lifted the carpets) to take the skirtings off and lift every board of every row from the edge of the room to where you need access, a single T&G chip board in the middle of the room will never come up without you having to destroy the tongues on 3 (possiby 4) sides of the board or alternatively cut access holes with a circular saw. If you need future access it's far better to install the floor then cut-out the access holes (we use a plunge saw and rail) and screw-in a piece of plywood as a removable access panel. The cut-out must obviously be joist to joist wide and the unsupported edges left by doing this should have timber noggins installed to give support

 

[JohnD]

... chip board in the middle of the room will never come up without ......

The incredible effort of getting under chipboard, plus its propensity to crack and creak if walked on, has left me determined only to use it in its proper place (the bonfire)

 

[Deleted member 174758]

The incredible effort of getting under chipboard, plus its propensity to crack and creak if walked on, has left me determined only to use it in its proper place (the bonfire)

And here's the question, just how often in the life of a house will you ever need to lift a floor? In general there's absolutely zilch beneath 90% of the sub-flooring I've ever put down. But if there is something beneath the sub-floor which must be maintained it's generally worth installing an access panel in the floor. But think about this another way - if you ever need to lift a plank or two in a T&G planked floor, how do you do that? You cut the tongues and crosscut the planks just like you have to do for T&G chipboard. No difference at all

Chipboard really only cracks and creaks if it's incorrectly installed, i.e. tongues left dry (not glued), boards not tightly butted together, it's nailed rather than screwed, insufficient screws are used (or the screws aren't sunk fully) or the board ends have not been supported on a joist. Installing it correctly isn't rocket science. On the other hand if the joists are too widely spaced or undersized - both of which can make a floor bouncy - then you'll get creaking and cracking regardless of whether it's T&G chipboard, T&G softwood planking or T&G oak planking because the joists are moving too much.

 

[JohnD]

And here's the question, just how often in the life of a house will you ever need to lift a floor?

In the life of a house, every room will sooner or later want some wiring run, or a radiator moved, or the bath plumbing changed. Or, if it's chipboard flooring, the areas at the bottom of stairs or in front of the sink or doorways or under the legs of beds will crack and need replacing. Or there will be a water leak and it will turn to mush.

The effort of dealing with horrible chipboard later, outweighs the cost and effort of laying a better material (if you are a homeowner, not if you are a housebuilder).