Clarification needed on the new EICR regs

[ax222s]

Hi,

From 1st April all rental properties need an EICR.

In 2019 I had a new consumer unit installed and the electrician gave me the Installation Certificate. Is this the same as an EICR?

Thanks

 

[ericmark]

In a way, but will be unlikely to help you. It does say 5 years from last EICR or EIC but the EIC is unlikely to cover whole property, so in theory you can used the Code LIM for all the EIC covers and only need an EICR to cover the rest.

It really would depend on what the electrician has put on the EIC form. And what that has down as limitation.

But the whole new law is a shambles, the EICR was never designed to be used that way, so there is no real answer. It is down to the courts to decide, which clearly you don't want to go to court, and neither will the county council who police the new law, so only if some one is injured is it likely to go to court, so up to you, take a chance or not.

 

[ax222s]

My electrician has just emailed me:

=========
I won’t have done an EICR at the same time as the EIC should cover it.

It was a new consumer unit which is classed as an alteration which involves testing all the circuits pertaining to that consumer unit. If you can get away without a condition report that’s better for you as I’ll have to reinspect and charge you.

Is this for the council? I know some are insisting on additional condition reports but I’m happy to speak to them on your behalf and explain it’s virtually the same with exactly the same tests!!

You had the CU fitted so it complied with regs and the tests should be enough.
=========

Does that clarify things? Based on what he has said what do you think?

At the bottom of the Certificate in very small text it reads "© Stroma Certification March 2015 - ELECTRICAL INSTALLATION CONDITION REPORT - Version 2.0 This form is based on the model form shown in Appendix 6 Page of of BS7671 as amended to 2015"

So it is an EICR!? Im confused. Could I post it here for you to see (I can redact the address).

 

[JohnW2]

My electrician has just emailed me: .... I won’t have done an EICR at the same time as the EIC should cover it. .... You had the CU fitted so it complied with regs and the tests should be enough. =========
Does that clarify things? Based on what he has said what do you think?

Although there will be a fair bit of overlap, the inspection and testing required for an EIC related to a CU change would not cover quite a lot of things that would be inspected/tested for an EICR

At the bottom of the Certificate in very small text it reads "© Stroma Certification March 2015 - ELECTRICAL INSTALLATION CONDITION REPORT - Version 2.0 This form is based on the model form shown in Appendix 6 Page of of BS7671 as amended to 2015" ... So it is an EICR!? Im confused. Could I post it here for you to see (I can redact the address).

It's clearly not intended to be an EICR, since the electrician says that it isn't! He is free to use whatever forms he wishes, so he has presumably just used at least some EICR forms for his EIC.

Yes, please post it here!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ax222s]

Thanks @JohnW2 . See attached
(hopefully Ive redacted the sensitive bits!)

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks @JohnW2 . See attached ... (hopefully Ive redacted the sensitive bits!)

Thanks. You've left identification of the electrician visible on page 2.

As far as I can see, it's really as I said before. Whilst it covers a high proportion of things that would be inspected and tested for an EICR, there are some which are not covered.

You could 'suck it and see' and see if the LA is satisfied (under the new 'landlord' legislation) with it. Given the likely extent (or lack of it!) of their knowledge/understanding, they might well accept it for the purpose (note that the legislation does NOT specifically mention an 'EICR' - only 'an inspection').

If they won't accept it, you could ask your electrician if it would be possible to do (just) the additional bits of inspection/testing that would be required for an EICR, and then issue a complete EICR' including that as well as the stuff on an EICR - but he could well say that he would 'not be allowed' to do that.

Others may have other/better ideas!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ax222s]

Thanks John - big help.
Would that be a building officer as my local council that I would need to ask to look at it? Or is there someone more specific I should ask for?

 

[JohnW2]

Thanks John - big help. Would that be a building officer as my local council that I would need to ask to look at it? Or is there someone more specific I should ask for?

You're welcome. I'm really not sure who at the LAs is involved in dealing with these new 'rental property inspections', but I imagine that it's probably a Building Officer - and, if not, I'm sure that such a person would be able to point you in the right direction.

'Asking questions' of the LA is obviously potentially dangerous, because it would flag up potentially issues which might not otherwise occur to them! I suppose you could just 'innocently submit' the report you have to the LA, and then see what happens! As a half-way house, you might consider adding a note when you submit it, saying that (like must be the case with many landlords!) you are 'a little confused/.uncertain' by the new legislation hence asking them (without further comment) whether the report you have submitted is satisfactory for the purpose.

Let us know how the situation evolves!

Kind Regards, John

 

[ax222s]

Thanks John.
Perhaps - as you say - Ill ask my electrician "to do (just) the additional bits of inspection/testing that would be required for an EICR, and then issue a complete EIC". Ill see what he says.

Id rather err on the side of caution because - should anything happen - Im sure my insurance company will find a way to wiggle out of it.

 

[ax222s]

What do you think (if it comes to it) a complete EICR on a very small 2 bed mid terrace house would be? Are we talking £100, or a lot more? (Ive no idea!)

 

[ericmark]

As far as I am aware the law does not say it needs an EICR it says

3.—(1) A private landlord(1) who grants or intends to grant a specified tenancy must—
(a)ensure that the electrical safety standards are met during any period when the residential premises(2) are occupied under a specified tenancy;
(b)ensure every electrical installation in the residential premises is inspected and tested at regular intervals by a qualified person; and
(c)ensure the first inspection and testing is carried out—
(i)before the tenancy commences in relation to a new specified tenancy; or
(ii)by 1st April 2021 in relation to an existing specified tenancy.

The

(e)supply a copy of the most recent report to—
(i)any new tenant of the specified tenancy to which the report relates before that tenant occupies those premises; and
(ii)any prospective tenant within 28 days of receiving a request in writing for it from that prospective tenant.

Means the tenant can read the document, so they could complain if they feel it does not cover, but this has been talked about many times on this forum. When I bought my house I had a house buyers survey done, this was done by a professional and it includes comments about the state of the electrics, it is not an EICR as we know it, and I know it does not really cover what the new law intends, however if I supplied a copy to some one renting the house, it would need the LABC to tell me it was not good enough. But the law says

Duty of local housing authority to serve a remedial notice

4.—(1) Where a local housing authority has reasonable grounds to believe that, in relation to residential premises situated within its area, a private landlord is in breach of one or more of the duties under regulation 3(1)(a), (1)(b), (1)(c), (4) and (6), and the most recent report under regulation 3(3) does not indicate that urgent remedial action is required, the authority must serve a remedial notice on the private landlord.

As far as I can see there is no charge to the landlord if the notice is served, so they would need to tell you to get another inspection.

 

[Diver Fred]

AFAIK unless you are in an LA area that licenses LandLords you do not need to notify the LA. What you do need to do is keep a copy for your records and give a (paper) copy to your tenants - the same as you would do for a Gas Test certificate.

What is really stupid is that should the LA require a copy you have 7 days to produce it - even if you are away from your records such as being on holiday, etc.

 

[JohnW2]

AFAIK unless you are in an LA area that licenses LandLords you do not need to notify the LA. What you do need to do is keep a copy for your records and give a (paper) copy to your tenants - the same as you would do for a Gas Test certificate.

Indeed, but ...

What is really stupid is that should the LA require a copy you have 7 days to produce it - ...

Indeed, and since that theoretically could happen (I'm not sure what would trigger that - unless the tenant raised concerns about the adequacy of 'the report'), and since the OP seemed to want to "err on the side of caution", I suggested that he might want to determine the LA's view of what he currently had available.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Risteard]

He is free to use whatever forms he wishes, so he has presumably just used at least some EICR forms for his EIC.

No he isn't. He is prohibited from certifying work with an EICR. You are absolutely not free to use whatever forms you wish.

 

[Risteard]

What do you think (if it comes to it) a complete EICR on a very small 2 bed mid terrace house would be? Are we talking £100, or a lot more? (Ive no idea!)

Double it.