Comando Socket for EV charging (In Scotland)

[trojanhawrs]

Can't see it saving you any money at all, you can pick up one of the Screwfix tethered chargers for £350, and that's only a single unit to install. I don't see a massive issue with your idea, technically chargers are supposed to be supplied with a "dedicated" circuit but you could argue it would be while the charger is connected. Honestly the third picture on their own website is the biggest reason to get a proper charger, that's exactly how I expect it to get used and apart from looking ropey there's a much bigger chance it's going to be subject to mechanical damage or be pulled out from the socket - not something I'd be keen on with a device that consistently draws its full load current.
Again, I expect that you'll end up paying more getting someone to fit your proposed equipment and it's just an inferior solution.

 

[iep]

Can't see it saving you any money at all, you can pick up one of the Screwfix tethered chargers for £350, and that's only a single unit to install. I don't see a massive issue with your idea, technically chargers are supposed to be supplied with a "dedicated" circuit but you could argue it would be while the charger is connected. Honestly the third picture on their own website is the biggest reason to get a proper charger, that's exactly how I expect it to get used and apart from looking ropey there's a much bigger chance it's going to be subject to mechanical damage or be pulled out from the socket - not something I'd be keen on with a device that consistently draws its full load current.
Again, I expect that you'll end up paying more getting someone to fit your proposed equipment and it's just an inferior solution.

Thanks. Good points all round.

On the other hand, I could use a proper PEN protected outlet for tools in that spot. So, a comando socket would at least kill two birds with one stone and all that.

I'll see what a local spark says and make a choice from there. Just wanted to check there wasn't a fundamental issue with the idea.

 

[trojanhawrs]

On the other hand, I could use a proper PEN protected outlet for tools in that spot. So, a comando socket would at least kill two birds with one stone and all that.

I'll see what a local spark says and make a choice from there. Just wanted to check there wasn't a fundamental issue with the idea.

As you alluded to in your previous post the chance of a PEN fault is pretty remote - the reason it's mandated for car chargers is that in the event of a fault the chance of coming into contact with energised metalwork is extremely high, this isn't necessarily the case for a lot of portable tools etc.

 

[flameport]

Doesn't it also mean that it's a 2.3kW charger, and won't suddenly become a 3.6kW one just because its plugged into a socket rated for 16A?

Charge current is set as a maximum by the connector box and the cable used to connect it to the vehicle if that cable is a separate item.
The vehicle will charge at whatever current it chooses up to that maximum.

What rating of socket it's plugged into changes nothing.

 

[morqthana]

Sorry - I thought this was a charger built into a car which plugs into a 13A socket...

 

[Risteard]

£1100 is on the pricier side but likely includes an expensive charger like the Zappi or hypervolt. You could get a much cheaper charger with the required pen fault protection installed for probably around the £7-800 mark

Nonsense. Stg £1,100 is on the ludicrously cheap side for an EVSE installation.

 

[iep]

As you alluded to in your previous post the chance of a PEN fault is pretty remote - the reason it's mandated for car chargers is that in the event of a fault the chance of coming into contact with energised metalwork is extremely high, this isn't necessarily the case for a lot of portable tools etc.

That makes sense bu the tools I'm thinking of are portable table saws and similar. They have a lot of exposed metalwork and so, in the event of PME failure, would present the same risk as an EV.

Obviously, the likelyhood of the failure happening while the tool is in use is much smaller (we charge the van a lot more often than I haul the table saw out onto the drive) but, I'f I'm getting a PEN protcted source added to the driveway, it makes sense to me that it be multipurpose.

 

[iep]

Nonsense. Stg £1,100 is on the ludicrously cheap side for an EVSE installation.

Unfortunetely, this is true. The £1100 deal was for a very basic charger with an app that is known to be 'lumpy'. A decent charger with a good rep was coming in at more like £1300.

Part of the reson I like the simple Voldt style chargers is exacttly that, their relative simplicity. No app, choose your charge rate, plug in and charge. The app for the van gives me all the info I need.

Sure, these chargers won't integrate with a smart meter but we can't have a smart meter where we live anyway, so no issue there.

 

[plugwash]

Actual charging and conversion to DC is done inside the vehicle.

Yes

That also means it's not necessary to alter any current settings on that device, the vehicle is what will determine the charge current.

The "charge point", whether fixed on a wall or part or a portable cable tells the car how much current it is allowed to draw.

 

[SUNRAY]

Yes


The "charge point", whether fixed on a wall or part or a portable cable tells the car how much current it is allowed to draw.

So how is the portable cable supposed to know how much current the car is allowed to draw?

As far as I can see a 'granny charger' based upon buzzing out during repairing a 13A and a 16A version are this

 

[plugwash]

So how is the portable cable supposed to know how much current the car is allowed to draw?

I've seen a few approaches.

Your typical "granny lead" with a 13A plug will just signal a fixed 10 amp maximum.

Units with 32A plugs will often have some kind of buttons to adjust the max charge current.

The information on max charge rate is sent to the car by varying the duty cycle of the signal on the "control pilot" line.

 

[SUNRAY]

I've seen a few approaches.

Your typical "granny lead" with a 13A plug will just signal a fixed 10 amp maximum.

Yes I can easily see how this lead can be used by the EV to detect and limit the mains current

Units with 32A plugs will often have some kind of buttons to adjust the max charge current.

However the 13A and 32A versions I've repaired (due to vandalism) were both of exactly the same format.
My guess is (And I stress it is only my guess) both leads show the same PD across the length of the neutral at their respective maximum currents sense terminals. IE 100mV @ 10A and 100mV @ 30A for the 2 cables and the car knows not to exceed 100mA on the sense terminals (figures plucked out of thin air to demonstrate).

The information on max charge rate is sent to the car by varying the duty cycle of the signal on the "control pilot" line.

 

[plugwash]

Hmm, I don't see any "current sense" pins on the type 2 pinout (the most common EV charging connector today) Just L1, L2, L3, N, PE CP and PP.

 

[SUNRAY]

Hmm, I don't see any "current sense" pins on the type 2 pinout (the most common EV charging connector today) Just L1, L2, L3, N, PE CP and PP.

I couldn't say how the pins are designated, I don't think they were marked, all I wanted to do was test for continuity before and after repair, both were wired the same. whether there is/was anything else involved in the moulded connectors I know not.

 

[iep]

The 'charger' does not limit the amount of curent the EV can draw. It's just a switch with some basic communication intelligance. All the smart stuff is built into the car itself.

My van, for example, can charge at up to 16A. Plug it into a 32A charger and it will still ask for only 16A. It's smart.

However, the van can charge on less than 16A, it just has to know how much it is allowed to draw. So, upon being plugged in, the charger tells the van how much current it can provide and the van limits it's draw to match the requested limit.

That's why I can set my charger to 6, 8, 10 or 13A. The 'charger' remains a simple switch passing the AC current to the van, but during initialisation, it tells the van the maximum current it is allowed.