Condensers have had it! Well, According to the DM they have!

[Tibbot]

No it won't. It'll be made as reasonably cheaply as it can to do the job you describe. It will not be made with no expense spared.

 

[onlyfitidealboilers]

what is got to do with rainwaters is
a rainwter is 2 1/2 inch, so if that can freeze, the recommended size of 1 1/4 will freeze more easily,
its not possible for always to run the condensate internally, and its perfectly ok to run then outside because the MI's say so,
so who knows best the MI's or you ?????

I have never in my life seen a rain water pipe freeze

when does it ever rain when the weather is below -0

 

[silverback18]

Silverback for someone who works for what 3% of the population in say the equivalent percentage of properties what makes you such an expert in what the other 97% want to spend what they will listen to and how the houses are built.

You and DIA agree that customers would not flinch about additional drain being put in for the condensate well when this is dearer than the average domestic job, guess what the standard customer just doesnt go for it.

Horses for courses and as much as i respect DIA you have to know what your market wants /expects and is prepared to pay for in standard domestic systems you have not got a clue . Basically by thinking every condensate can be run internally and customer will accept what will end up as a 3 inch lagged pipe accross there front or back wall is feking nonsense

i find that if you explain the situation to the customer in a proffessional manner, they are more than happy to go with your suggestion

 

[silverback18]

No it won't. It'll be made as reasonably cheaply as it can to do the job you describe. It will not be made with no expense spared.

How would you know, you do not know what controls company we use, I see the controls been built on site and I know the controls engineers personally.

 

[ajrobb]

Speaking as a consumer (rant alert), I saw one estimate of an average annual condensate total of 800 litres, which is practically nothing. That would save the user a massive £16 in gas. You've got to wonder if it is worth it. Sure, you can get really significant savings if you have a pure UFH system with flow temperature of 40°C but they are rare. I still see reference to a return of 55°C being all that is required to maximise savings, but that is just when the savings start.

I would hope that all modern system boilers should have separate flow temperatures for CH and DHW but I'm afraid that some of our domestic suppliers haven't cottoned on. This leaves installations with a single flow temperature of 70°C to comply with legionella controls and very little chance of condensation savings. Once again, Britain could be hanging on like grim death to our way of doing things, trying to shave pennies without regard to reliability.

I like the idea though of extending the exemption for condensing boilers to any property with external and/or iron stacks.

 

[doitall]

Horses for courses and as much as i respect DIA you have to know what your market wants /expects and is prepared to pay for in standard domestic systems you have not got a clue . Basically by thinking every condensate can be run internally and customer will accept what will end up as a 3 inch lagged pipe accross there front or back wall is feking nonsense

But that is what I'm saying namsag,

is prepared to pay for

Joe Bloggs is not prepared to pay for the better quality, all they want is the cheapest quote.

 

[Tibbot]

No it won't. It'll be made as reasonably cheaply as it can to do the job you describe. It will not be made with no expense spared.

How would you know, you do not know what controls company we use, I see the controls been built on site and I know the controls engineers personally.

So are they all on 6 figure salaries using only components hand made from scratch in an old English factory. Or do they simply assemble mainly bits shipped in from the Far East?

 

[silverback18]

Speaking as a consumer (rant alert), I saw one estimate of an average annual condensate total of 800 litres, which is practically nothing. That would save the user a massive £16 in gas. You've got to wonder if it is worth it. Sure, you can get really significant savings if you have a pure UFH system with flow temperature of 40°C but they are rare. I still see reference to a return of 55°C being all that is required to maximise savings, but that is just when the savings start.

I would hope that all modern system boilers should have separate flow temperatures for CH and DHW but I'm afraid that some of our domestic suppliers haven't cottoned on. This leaves installations with a single flow temperature of 70°C to comply with legionella controls and very little chance of condensation savings. Once again, Britain could be hanging on like grim death to our way of doing things, trying to shave pennies without regard to reliability.

I like the idea though of extending the exemption for condensing boilers to any property with external and/or iron stacks.

the amount of condense produced has no relevance to the gas savings, these condensing boilers will save you money in gas used, the system needs to be set up correctly, to work properly to give the best savings, this is where the problems occur, installers just turning them on and walking away, no setting up, the flow temperature should be lowered and the delta T set to be between 18 - 20 degress differnce, to alllow the return temperature to be lower, getting the most out of your boiler

 

[Biggles..]

No it won't. It'll be made as reasonably cheaply as it can to do the job you describe. It will not be made with no expense spared.

How would you know, you do not know what controls company we use, I see the controls been built on site and I know the controls engineers personally.

all controls whether it be BMS or basic honeywell stat are off the peg, the only difference for 40k is someone gives you a box with dodgy lights and labels on plus a big key to open it with.
Things like starters,trend controllers are 10 a penny and over priced to the end user.

 

[silverback18]

No it won't. It'll be made as reasonably cheaply as it can to do the job you describe. It will not be made with no expense spared.

How would you know, you do not know what controls company we use, I see the controls been built on site and I know the controls engineers personally.

So are they all on 6 figure salaries using only components hand made from scratch in an old English factory. Or do they simply assemble mainly bits shipped in from the Far East?

Japanese components as they are the leaders in electronics

 

[Tibbot]

Joe Bloggs is not prepared to pay for the better quality, all they want is the cheapest quote.

So if Joe Bloggs goes for the cheapest quote how do you know Hooray Henry goes for the dearest one? Even if he spends £40K with you, your competitor may have quoted £50K or are you saying they habitually pick the dearest?

 

[Tibbot]

Japanese components as they are the leaders in electronics

No doubt they are. Doesn't stop them producing in a sweat shop in Indonesia though.

 

[silverback18]

No it won't. It'll be made as reasonably cheaply as it can to do the job you describe. It will not be made with no expense spared.

How would you know, you do not know what controls company we use, I see the controls been built on site and I know the controls engineers personally.

all controls whether it be BMS or basic honeywell stat are off the peg, the only difference for 40k is someone gives you a box with dodgy lights and labels on plus a big key to open it with.
Things like starters,trend controllers are 10 a penny and over priced to the end user.

yeah ok then, I will agree with you, I will tell the client of a 10miilion pound property in Regents Part that we will ditch the bespoke BMS controls system and install a few Honeywell CM67 controllers, to run his, boiler, UFH heating, air conditioning, hot water, air handling unit, oh and I forgot the swimming pool as well

 

[silverback18]

Japanese components as they are the leaders in electronics

No doubt they are. Doesn't stop them producing in a sweat shop in Indonesia though.

So by your reckoning everything is cheap tat, there is no such thing as high quality.

 

[namsag]

DIA the joe bloggs i work for will pay as we have all agreed the differnce in price for condensate pipe is probably about a fiver on the average job .

But people DONT want that across there building no matter what you say they do understand they do accept but they just dont want a 3 inch pipe especially not a level pipe across there building. WOULD you or for a better question would the wife