Conservatory planning - is an offshot kitchen the rear wall?

[fleurdelys]

Hi everyone, I've had a look through the archived threads and haven't found an answer to this so am wondering whether anyone can help.

We're planning to build a conservatory on the rear of our 1940 semi-detached house. I'm confused about the rule stated in the Planning Portal

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/england/public/buildingwork/projects/workcommonconservatory/

which states "Single-storey rear extension must not extend beyond the rear wall of the 'original house' by more than three metres if an attached house or by four metres if a detached house."

Where is the rear wall of the house if the house has an offshot kitchen as part of the original construction? We were planning for our conservatory to extend just under 3m from the rear wall of the offshot, which is the furthermost rear wall of the house, but it would extend 4m from the wall behind the offshot thus contravening planning regs if that wall is considered the rear wall. The offshot is only single storey if that helps.

I've drawn a rough plan here to illustrate what I mean:

http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/6079/planforum.jpg

Which wall would constitute the rear wall?

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

They are both 'rear walls' if both constructed when the house was first built. As this is your lucky day you can refer to this document from the Planning Portal (which is about as official as you can get) http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/clg-pd-faq.pdf page 5 A1(e) and (f).

Therefore you can extend 3m from each wall under PD.

Even though you do not need Planning Permission you may consider it advantageous to apply for a Certificate of Lawful Development.

Certificate of Lawfulness of Proposed Use or Development.

This is where you wish to confirm that what you are proposing would be lawful i.e. it would not require express planning permission. For example you may need to establish that what you have proposed does not constitute development, is ‘permitted development’, or already has planning permission.

What are the benefits of a Certificate of Lawful Development?

There are benefits in gaining a Certificate of Lawful Use or Development. It is a determination that has legal status providing certainty to prospective developers and purchasers of land and buildings. Certificates of Lawful Use or Development will be particularly beneficial to those participating in the housing market. Solicitors representing purchasers of, for example, extended dwellings, will usually require documentary evidence that extensions such as conservatories are lawful. This evidence may assist with the sale of property. Certificates of Lawful Use or Development also provide the necessary evidence that any works being undertaken are lawful if, for example, a neighbour were to make an enquiry or complaint about the work.

Basically, if you do not get a Certificate when you come to sell your house the buyers solicitor may ask for proof and you may have to apply for a cert in order to complete on the house sale.

You have not mentioned Building Regulatsions so I will assume you are aware that you do not need Building Regs Approval provided you leave the external door in place between the dwelling and the conservatory.

This all assumes you are not in a Conservation area or other oddity BTW.

 

[fleurdelys]

Therefore you can extend 3m from each wall.

Thanks for the PDF link, very interesting, and for the information about getting a certificate of lawfulness.

So if I want to extend 4m from the wall adjacent to the offshot I'll have to apply for planning permission? Damn. 3m from that wall is definitely not big enough. The neighbours wouldn't object so is there any reason why planning permission wouldn't be granted do you know?

You have not mentioned Building Regulatsions so I will assume you are aware that you do not need Building Regs Approval provided you leave the external door in place between the dwelling and the conservatory.

Yes I checked that out earlier, we will indeed be leaving the french doors in place which will be between the wall adjacent to the offshot and the proposed conservatory.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

So if I want to extend 4m from the wall adjacent to the offshot I'll have to apply for planning permission? Damn. 3m from that wall is definitely not big enough. The neighbours wouldn't object so is there any reason why planning permission wouldn't be granted do you know?

Haha, there are no guarantees with planning! One important factor in this kind of application is your neighbours 'right to light'. Can't really comment further as you've not indicated their house rear wall positions/glazing. even if your current neighbour does not object the planners sometimes think about future purchasers rights. Mad but true.

The first thing I would do is check the online list of planning applications for your local authority and tap in your postcode. You'll be able to search for similar applications in your immediate area and get a feel for what is and is not accepted. Sometimes though if the houses in your street are all the same you can see that someone has done something similar already. You can also look out your window to see what others may have done.

Then book a meeting with a Planning Duty officer and try and gauge their opinion. Take a few photos along and your existing and proposed plans. You should get an idea as to whether its likely to be supported or not.

Ulitmately you'll just have to take the plunge and stick an application in. Nobody will be able to give you a guarantee despite what they might say!

 

[fleurdelys]

The neighbours have the same layout as us only the mirror image, and a fence separates us. They are continually adding to their fence to make it higher (without contravening regs) as they want as much distance between them and all the other neighbours as possible as they suffer from mental illness. I'm certain they will welcome a permanent structure separating them.

The first thing I would do is check the online list of planning applications for your local authority and tap in your postcode. You'll be able to search for similar applications in your immediate area and get a feel for what is and is not accepted. Sometimes though if the houses in your street are all the same you can see that someone has done something similar already. You can also look out your window to see what others may have done.

Thanks freddymercurystwin. Very useful advice!

Then book a meeting with a Planning Duty officer and try and gauge their opinion. Take a few photos along and your existing and proposed plans. You should get an idea as to whether its likely to be supported or not.

Great advice and will do. You've been so helpful, thanks!

 

[fleurdelys]

Then book a meeting with a Planning Duty officer and try and gauge their opinion. Take a few photos along and your existing and proposed plans. You should get an idea as to whether its likely to be supported or not.

Thanks to your advice freddymercurystwin I went ahead and had a phone meeting with a planning officer who told me that in all probability any planning application would be denied. Apparently the 3m rule is for guidance but planning officers only have the freedom to circumvent that guidance due to unusual circumstances. In our case, our neighbour's property is several feet lower than ours so that would work against us in terms of the view from their property.

So to recap the planned conservatory can project out a max of 3m from the offshot wall and then has to be inset to project out a max of 3m from the dining room wall which in effect means the conservatory will have to follow the line of the rear wall of the house.

However using my mantra for life which is to attempt to turn any negative into a positive, I've now redesigned the conversatory to include a small outdoor terrace area in place of the lost interior area. I'll post a pic to show what I mean later as it may help anyone with the same offshot kitchen problem in the future.