Consumer Unit Transformer

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Looking at swapping the current transformer in our CU for one suitable to power a video doorbell.

Below is the CU with front cover off.

If I found a 2 DIN size transformer, can they be swapped without having to remove anything else? Obviously I would knock off the main breaker, but do the modules just sit on a bar behind?

Also, I'm weary that some transformers may be designed for old style doorbells that aren't permanently drawing current. Can anyone advise on a transformer they've used successfully for a similar project?

Cheers.

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A consumer unit is a type tested distribution unit, and to retain the type testing status only items permitted by the manufacturer can br fitted.

Wether a crabtree is permitted in a Hager box I don't know, but this is the problem fitting a transformer within the CU.

Today we could not fit that old board configured as it is, it would need RCD protection of all circuits, likely using RCBO's and fit a SPU, it only has two neutral bars so all RCBO or nothing.

Personally I would not put the transformer or power supply inside the consumer unit, I would mount in its own box.
 
If you want to replace the existing transformer the sensible place to put it is within the CU
 
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I'm looking to take out the crabtree one, and replace with another (2 DIN?) onel that would fit.

There is one in Screwfix that seems popular, but I think this is not really designed to be under load constantly, rather only brief periods when someone presses the door bell push.

My question is the Screwfix one suitable for video doorbells that are constantly drawing current? If not, any recommendations for ones that are suitable.

Also, is it just a case of isolating the CU, loosening the front screws, removing wires from top& bottom, and pulling out?
 
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is the Screwfix one suitable for video doorbells that are constantly drawing current?
Impossible to know. Most are not.

any recommendations for ones that are suitable.
The one that the doorbell manufacturer supplies.

If you are going to install it in the consumer unit, those single insulated white 'bell wires' connected to the top of the existing one need to be oversleeved with additional insulation for the entire length that's inside the consumer unit, as they are not rated for 230V as they are, and all wires in a consumer unit must be.

You should also remove all of those loose metal keys and other objects from the top of the consumer unit before opening it.
 
The video doorbells don't come with manufacturer supplied transformers as far as I can see. They might come with a DC brick for a mains plug, but I don't want to use that.

One of the manufacturer's does recommend one off Amazon, but it's an Italian make I've never heard before, and not sure on the quality.

If I understand correctly, the red & black is the 230v on bottom primary side of transformer, and the white wires at the top secondary side of transformer have the 12v AC on them. 5VA divided by 12v equals 400mA which the wires should be ok with.

The actual thin bell wires are from the chime to the door push at the front are thinner than those. They might need thicker wires if the current goes up to/above 1A.

(yep, I should have removed the metal stuff on top in case it dropped down into a live unit. Probably shouldn't even take the cover off with it live)
 
..... it only has two neutral bars so all RCBO or nothing.
I'm certainly not advocating trying to continue using that unit but, as far as your comment is concerned, two neutral bars would be enough if all circuits were split between two RCDs.

Kind Regards, John
 
While it is convenient to locate the transformer in the consumer unit there are disadvantages when a fault occurs, Already mentioned is the need for the ELV circuit ( the 12 V wiring ) to be insulated to withstand mains voltage.

If ( when ) the transformer becomes faulty and overheats it may compromise the operation of MCBs. Replacing the transformer is much easier when it is in a separate housing.
 
Already mentioned is the need for the ELV circuit ( the 12 V wiring ) to be insulated to withstand mains voltage.
Strictly true, but I think it's really a matter of what 'rating' a manufacturer chooses to give to their cables, rather than what voltage it can "withstand".....

... I often wonder whether it would actually be possible (well, practical) to create PVC insulation on a conductor which was so thin that it "could not withstand mains voltage" :)

Kind Regards, John
 
Either the Eufy or Reolink one. (Probably Reolink though)

I'd rather put the transformer in the CU as it is the quickest/easiest option. But it seems there are concerns with overheating/fire?
 
two neutral bars would be enough if all circuits were split between two RCDs.
Are two RCD consumer units still allowed? One could measure the leakage before starting with a clamp on, it needs to read down to 1 mA and I know my old one only measured to 10 mA and limit should be 9 mA so bit on the edge only knowing 0-10, or 10-20 mA.

I know my mothers door bell that rang the wireless phone, and allowed her to talk to caller, was DC so a transformer was a non starter it needed a smoothed DC supply and we ended up with a wallmart power supply to get the 12 volt DC.

The new version of what is fitted data sheet here it does say it has a cut out built in, and the load for an electronic door bell is well below that for the old ding dong type. I looked up Ring which can be USB charged battery, or Hardwired transformer (8 to 24 VAC, 50/60Hz, 5VA to 40VA) - Not compatible with: DC, halogen and garden-lighting transformers.

Looked at Aperta that says supplied with Plug-in power adaptor. 8GB MicroSD card. DC power, relay contact extension cables & terminal screw driver. Door chime & 3 x AA batteries.

As one goes through the adverts the power requirements seem to change with each model. 16–24 VAC Blink, 12-24 V Google Nest but another version says 3.65 V. So it is a little pointless until you say what yours requires. I must admit is puzzles me why some have battery back-up, as with no power to the router it would not work anyway.

Mine does log when pressed, but no video. And push is battery powered and base is plug in.
 
Are two RCD consumer units still allowed?
When you say 'allowed', I presume you mean "BS7671-compliant", since there really is nothing really 'not allowed'about things which are non-conformant with BS7671?

Given that the regulations are so vague on such issues, opinions even about conformity with BS7671 will undoubtedly vary. For what it's worth, virtually all of the CUs in my house are dual-RCD ones, and I'm very comfortable about that (and, were I not thinking at all about BS7671, I would be very happy installing the same in my house today). The fact that I have such RCDs most certainly has not resulted in any "inconvenience"
One could measure the leakage before starting with a clamp on, it needs to read down to 1 mA and I know my old one only measured to 10 mA and limit should be 9 mA so bit on the edge only knowing 0-10, or 10-20 mA.
For a start, there's really not much point in measuring things, since there is no telling what might be 'plugged in' 5 minutes, days or months later.

Again for what it's worth, I've lived with my (several) dual-RCD CUs for very many years and have suffered virtually no 'nuisance' RCD trips during that period (i.e. virtually all trips have been 'for a good reason', usually water-related) ... so I really have no concerns about the level of 'baseline' residual earth leakage currents (and have no reason to expect that they are likely to increase in the foreseeable future.

So, yet again for what it';s worth, in view of the above, and the fact that I also have emergency lighting, I would say that my installation (with all dual-RCD CUs) is compliant with 314.1.

Kind Regards,. John
 
Had a thought, an alternative could be to use a PoE video doorbell instead.

I'd have to read deeper to fully understand properly, but on the face of it I could get run some cat5 outside to the doorbell. So wouldn't have to touch the CU or house electrics.
 
Again for what it's worth, I've lived with my (several) dual-RCD CUs for very many years and have suffered virtually no 'nuisance' RCD trips during that period (i.e. virtually all trips have been 'for a good reason', usually water-related) ... so I really have no concerns about the level of 'baseline' residual earth leakage currents (and have no reason to expect that they are likely to increase in the foreseeable future.
You have said this before, and I have also said in my old house how I lost two freezers full of food when we had left the house for a few months to look after my mother, that old house had RCD's fitted in around 1992, and they would go for years without tripping, then trip many times in a couple of weeks then do another few years, never did find a fault using an insulation tester, but one when fitted RCBO's of single modular width were not readily available so no option but fit a RCD to each fuse box I had two, and this is true with many installations they had to fit what could be obtained in the local wholesale outlets. They could not have fitted RCBO's as simply not available.
Had a thought, an alternative could be to use a PoE video doorbell instead.

I'd have to read deeper to fully understand properly, but on the face of it I could get run some cat5 outside to the doorbell. So wouldn't have to touch the CU or house electrics.
I do wish now we had a video camera at the door, no point being in door bell the delivery people never press it, the take a photo and run, often opened to door to find soaking wet parcels, even a food parcel which said in large writing door bell must be rung. My door bell does log when used, so not a case of not hearing it ring.

I wonder if a simple PIR is the answer? And have that connected to a bell of some sort, however I don't really what it ringing when the milkman calls, as that is so early in the morning. My front door is at side of house now, but last house any PIR would have been set off by passing traffic, also no one can see parcels at door where I live now from the road, so theft is unlikely.

Covid has changed how parcels are delivered, I do wonder how many photos have been taken on my property without my permission? And of my security arrangements i.e. my front door? And I have seen on social media photos published of some random front door where a parcel has been left in error, with requests does anyone recognise this front door. But can't see how a video door bell helps? I used a pet cam to look after my mother before we had to move in to look after her, and it did work of sorts, but it would fail every so often as could not connect with internet, and I would need to drive down to check all OK. Internet is improving, but I am in the outback of Wales, so not really good enough to use phone for door bell answering if not at home, hard enough getting a mobile phone signal never mind video.
 

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