Conventional boiler.... comeback Combi all is forgiven!

[TellMeWhy]

It will give 45C with a main temp of 10C, at a 35C temp rise.

Not comparable to a cylinder of hot water.

Totally. It can deliver about 500 litres in 20 mins. 750 litres in 30 ins. How much is that stainless 700 litre cylinder?

Bang a 180 litre cylinder with a blending valve set to give 45C; coupled with a system boiler suited to the property and you'll have a far more reliable and efficient system.

Total amateur wet finger in the air nonsense. I get a pipe monkey to fit them TO WHAT I SAY.

 

[TellMeWhy]

Bang a 180 litre cylinder with a blending valve set to give 45C;

Another valve? More complexity to give work in the future. It gets worse.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Again..."The Boilermate is a stand alone thermal store. It is NOT a comb".

No one said it was.

You need therapy. Can you read back posts?

Heheh..you're funny. Who'd want to brush their hair with a boilermate?

Clueless, but funny.

Do you want to run your figures again?

Then compare them to practical needs. Who is going to want 750 litres of tepid water in 30 minutes?

 

[Corgigrouch]

Again..."The Boilermate is a stand alone thermal store. It is NOT a comb".

No one said it was.

You need therapy. Can you read back posts?

Hey Dr Drivel, Next time you could come back as Mr Mad.... Sure is better name than Water Systems or Big Burner

 

[Dan Robinson]

Yes dear.

But at least i know what I'm talking about. You have been proven wrong on pretty much every level.

Including sticking a 50kw boiler in a 4 bed house.

Such a prannet.

 

[transam]

Well "tellme why" seeing as u have got a massive boiler in your house , would u be interested in the following circulater ?????

yours for a couple hundred ????


View media item 56171

 

[Servotech]

Hi all,
we have just bought a new house, 4 bedrooms, 3 bathrooms.

In our last house (3 bed, 1.5 baths) we had a combi boiler, and loved it. Hot water whenever we needed it.

However, in this new house its turning into something of a nightmare. Its a conventional boiler and a cylinder.

Weve never had a conventional boiler.

At the moment we have to turn on the hot water an hour before in order to have a single bath.
And once we've had a bath, there is no hot water for a shower or doing the washing up etc.


Are we doing something wrong? If I could I would replace it with a combi, but been told its not powerful enough for a house of this size..... but with two small kids we need hot water literally on tap....

You are indeed using the boiler wrongly.
The hot water cylinder is a vessel for storing hot water until it is needed.


Just chill out and leave the boiler switched on letting the cylinder thermostat do it's job of supplying you and your family with lashings of hot water (it cannot do this if your boiler is switched off).
servotech,

 

[Corgigrouch]

Servotech..... Are you sure that the OP doesn't need a 50kW combination boiler instead?

 

[SimonH2]

That is untrue! The difference in a modern system boiler and a combi usually is a three-way valve, plate heat exchanger and a some extra bits of sensors and flow switch.

Yes exactly, a troublesome (and usually expensive) flow sensor & diverter, and "some extra bits of (expensive) sensors".

You will find most a parts are compatible with a system and combi of the same maker.

I'd expect that - as a lot of the system will be common across models. Doesn't alter the fact that the diverter valves tend to be one of the troublesome bits - and one that's avoidable by using a heat only boiler.

I have the difference in price from a ATAG system and the large combi, it was miniscule. Some combis do not even have a 3-way valve, but I know of no high flow model with no 3-way valve.

It would be interesting to know how one is supposed to work without a means of diverting the flow through either the DHW PHE or the CH loop. Perhaps they have two pumps and non-return valves - that's completely eliminating complexity and parts to fail (that's irony BTW).

Those who fit external cylinders have to fit an external 3-way valve, or two 2-port valves, adding more complexity and bulk.

I'm not a fan of 3-port valves, but 2 port valves couldn't be simpler. If you think that a pair of 2 port valves in an S-Plan configuration is even remotely as complex as a typical flow sensor & diverter in a combi then I think it is you who knows little of modern heating systems. Not to mention some of the fancy programming tricks they go through to try and hide some of the fundamental issues combis have.

because you do not know how they work. A high quality combi rarely goes wrong.

I can assure you I fully understand how they work (or at least are supposed to). However, while I could diagnose them, the law prohibits me from doing so. Move the stuff outside of the boiler and it's a different matter.
Now suppose the diverter fails in the WB in the house, or the Vokera in the flat - or rather, not so much suppose it fails, but when it fails. Both manufacturer specific parts which will not be on the shelf with my local heating engineers (the WB one possibly; the Vokera, forget it). A 2 port zone valve is available off the shelf with them (probably even a standard item in the engineers' vans), and with any of the local plumbers merchants. Heck, they are cheap enough that I could hold my own spare*. So should the 2 port valve fail, I can replace it myself, and most likely it's only the head (or motor in the head) and I can swap that in a matter of minutes. If it's the motor in a 2 port valve, then there's even the manual override to get the heat on until someone can fix it - I suppose you'll claim a combi can do that as well now !

So tenant going days with no hot water and/or no heating while I wait for the Gas Safe registered people to obtain an unobtanium** bodied valve vs fixed within minutes of me being able to get there - now that's a tricky choice isn't it


* I already do for some things.

** Some things seem so hard to get hold of and/or are so disproportionately expensive that one has to assume they are made of something we jokingly refer to as unobtanium.

 

[Dan Robinson]

Simon, you are speaking far too much sense.

No what your tenants really need is a 50kw combi.

Perhaps you can run some microbore between your house and the flat and make some use of their monumental pump over run.

Oh, wait. Forgot that won't be needed as a couple of hundred quids worth of header is sitting under the boiler for that.

SIMPLE eh?

 

[SimonH2]

 

[TellMeWhy]

I shall rephrase it, a oversized Combi with a thermal store then.

Again..."The Boilermate is a stand alone thermal store. It is NOT a comb".

I'm sure these ATAGs are super, I really am, but I haven't seen one, of the 1000's of jobs I've completed in 9 years not one.

Most mechanics have never worked on RRs either.

Scale is a big issue in this county and installer never put adequate scale protection. Scale affect EVERY system.

I have a healthy appreciation fro quality products and suitable applications. get to know the products on the market and how to apply them.

 

[Dan Robinson]

appreciation fro quality products and suitable applications. get to know the products on the market and how to apply them.

You've been on the sherbert again haven't you

9ish kW minimum output, dirty great LLH slung under the boiler, separate system pump for heating, monster gas pipe, probably gas meter upgrade.

Tepid hot water at your designed flow rate....


Your oh so simple installation isn't so simple is it numb nuts?

 

[Tom1981]

I shall rephrase it, a oversized Combi with a thermal store then.

Again..."The Boilermate is a stand alone thermal store. It is NOT a comb".

I'm sure these ATAGs are super, I really am, but I haven't seen one, of the 1000's of jobs I've completed in 9 years not one.

Most mechanics have never worked on RRs either.

Scale is a big issue in this county and installer never put adequate scale protection. Scale affect EVERY system.

I have a healthy appreciation fro quality products and suitable applications. get to know the products on the market and how to apply them.

Hate to say it, but you've already said that.

Norfolk is one of the worst areas for Hard Water, a Combimate is really the only way to slow it down, as I feel the need to repeat; boilers can scale solid in 4 months around here. Hot water cylinders can be protected rather well with a Hydroflow, but their pretty useless for a Combi.

It's naive to put your blinkers on for just one brand, there's lots of kit out there which is sold as the best thing since sliced bread.

I think the new Ultracom2's look rather good, but only time will tell.

I'm rather good at fixing these awesome boilers, wouldn't it be great if they could make a appliance that just worked, but then that wouldn't be much fun would it? And I'd be out of a job

 

[Dan Robinson]

Guess he doesn't know what a LLH is?